# The Walking Dead; 4.09 "After" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 10, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934 "2014-02-10T01:12:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/81 "2014-02-12T17:27:47Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This is not only overly antagonistic, it’s just wrong to boot. They do NOT show Michonne seeing them. There was a shot of Michonne looking through a porch window and reacting with joy. There was a shot of Rick and Carl as seen through a porch window. There was never a shot of Michonne seeing Rick and Carl through a porch window. You’re wrong. The shot order is Michonne getting to the window; looking in; seeing Rick and Carl through a thin white curtain; followed by a shot of Michonne, still looking in through the window (with a visible thin white curtain in the shot), look of joy on her face. It is an extremely simple “character looks at window -\> view of what she sees in the window -\> back to character” construction that has been around more or less since the birth of cinema. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/82 "2014-02-12T17:28:35Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > There was never a shot of Michonne seeing Rick and Carl through a porch window. Probably because they were on different sets. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/83 "2014-02-12T17:30:50Z")
I think what likely happened is that Michone saw the pudding can, and went into the house where Carl found it. She saw the sign that Carl wrote on the door, retreived the shoe, and then found the house that Carl and Rick were in. When Rick looks out to see who knocked, he sees Michone with the lost shoe. That is why Rick tells Carl that it’s for him. That’s how it played out in my mind. Otherwise what sense does the note make? I still think it’s colossally stupid to not have a long blunt or bladed weapon at all times. A single or even a couple walkers should never be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/84 "2014-02-12T17:55:25Z")
There is one fair point of confusion with the scene, and that is the porch and the furniture on it. You don’t see that earlier when Rick and Carl enter the house because Rick and Carl enter through the front door whereas Michonne elects to circle the house and approaches from the left side side or the rear (the road that travels in front of the house is not present in this shot, therefore it cannot be the front). In comparison, Carl exits the house from the right side when he goes out to deal with the zombies banging on the door. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/85 "2014-02-12T18:33:53Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I think what likely happened is that Michone saw the pudding can, and went into the house where Carl found it. She saw the sign that Carl wrote on the door, retreived the shoe, and then found the house that Carl and Rick were in. **When Rick looks out to see who knocked, he sees Michone with the lost shoe. That is why Rick tells Carl that it’s for him.** That’s how it played out in my mind. Otherwise what sense does the note make? > > I still think it’s colossally stupid to not have a long blunt or bladed weapon at all times. A single or even a couple walkers should never be a problem. That and/or Rick is aware of the bond that developed between Michonne and Carl on their foraging forays towards the end of last season. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/86 "2014-02-12T18:48:02Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > That was a toddler, not an infant. And I was thinking more along the lines of the zombaby from the **Dawn of the Dead** remake. BTW what was that a clip of at the end with Denise Crosby? That was the original version of [Pet Sematary](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098084/?ref_=nv_sr_1) by Stephen King. [sub]And I said “kinda.”[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/87 "2014-02-12T18:58:35Z")
> [@Reverse](#): > > You’re wrong. The shot order is Michonne getting to the window; looking in; seeing Rick and Carl through a thin white curtain; followed by a shot of Michonne, still looking in through the window (with a visible thin white curtain in the shot), look of joy on her face. > > It is an extremely simple “character looks at window -\> view of what she sees in the window -\> back to character” construction that has been around more or less since the birth of cinema. Still not wrong. There’s no shot that indisputably links Michonne with Rick and Carl. If there is, please tell me the point in time it appears in the episode so that I can see it for myself. Not sure where the over-the-top attitude is coming from, but it’s unnecessary and unwarranted. It’s true that personal perspective or point of view shots have been around for a long time, although not quite since the birth of cinema (watch the documentary _The Story of Film_ for a really nice discussion of the advancement of cinematic techniques in the early decades of film). But you know what else has been around for a long time? Playing with the audience’s assumptions and inferences using parallel editing or cross cutting with various perspectives, but then pulling the rug out as a surprise. Ever see _The Silence of the Lambs_, for example? Jame Gumb was in the house that the FBI was just about to raid, right? Oh wait… ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/88 "2014-02-12T19:11:13Z")
Sure, psych out the audience with the door switcheroo if you want, but it wouldn’t make sense to do that here. How many other people would have made her smile like that, Daryl maybe? What would be the point of that psych out? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/89 "2014-02-12T19:16:45Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Sure, psych out the audience with the door switcheroo if you want, but it wouldn’t make sense to do that here. How many other people would have made her smile like that, Daryl maybe? What would be the point of that psych out? Someone up thread did point out that the writers go for “cool” rather than story telling. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/90 "2014-02-12T19:20:16Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Sure, psych out the audience with the door switcheroo if you want, but it wouldn’t make sense to do that here. How many other people would have made her smile like that, Daryl maybe? What would be the point of that psych out? Note that I’m not contending it is likely here - I’ve already stated why I don’t believe it, above. I’m merely observing that **reverse** was incorrect in stating that Michonne was clearly shown to be looking at Rick and Carl, and with such comical vitriol to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/91 "2014-02-12T19:27:54Z")
My money is that Michone has Carl’s shoe and is returning it. It would suck to be in the zombie apocalypse without shoes. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/92 "2014-02-12T19:45:36Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > My money is that Michone has Carl’s shoe and is returning it. It would suck to be in the zombie apocalypse without shoes. I still say they need to raid the bedrooms for fresh clothes. They’re really getting gross. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/93 "2014-02-12T19:46:55Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > My money is that Michone has Carl’s shoe and is returning it. It would suck to be in the zombie apocalypse without shoes. I like it. It would make me feel bad as a father though. I’m sure I couldn’t recognize my boys’ shoes on sight. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/94 "2014-02-12T22:15:00Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Note that I’m not contending it is likely here - I’ve already stated why I don’t believe it, above. I’m merely observing that **reverse** was incorrect in stating that Michonne was clearly shown to be looking at Rick and Carl, and with such comical vitriol to boot. Vitriol aside, it really was clearly shown and quite obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/95 "2014-02-12T22:40:11Z")
Well, if the writers _are_ pulling some kind of _Silence of the Lambs_ door-switcheroo, I don’t mind admitting I’d be annoyed. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/96 "2014-02-12T22:43:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by levdrakon > Sure, psych out the audience with the door switcheroo if you want, but it wouldn’t make sense to do that here. How many other people would have made her smile like that, Daryl maybe? What would be the point of that psych out? > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Someone up thread did point out that the writers go for “cool” rather than story telling. I agree that they could be going for the fake-out. It might even work: say that what Michonne saw–the sight that made her react with such a relieved smile–is baby Judith, alive and well, being cared for by…someone Michonne doesn’t know. Relief and pleasure would be natural. But the caretaker could be hostile and unwilling to give Judith up–setting up conflict. The knock on Rick and Carl’s door that would lead Rick to say “it’s for you” could have been a single walker–hence, no threat–holding Carl’s shoe in his teeth. (Okay, admittedly, that’s kinda weak.) ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/97 "2014-02-12T23:46:18Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I agree that they could be going for the fake-out. > > It might even work: say that what Michonne saw–the sight that made her react with such a relieved smile–is baby Judith, alive and well, being cared for by…someone Michonne doesn’t know. Relief and pleasure would be natural. But the caretaker could be hostile and unwilling to give Judith up–setting up conflict. > > The knock on Rick and Carl’s door that would lead Rick to say “it’s for you” could have been a single walker–hence, no threat–holding Carl’s shoe in his teeth. (Okay, admittedly, that’s kinda weak.) That would be pretty twisted even for Rick. I think it was meant for us to wonder for a week whether there was going to be a fake out but I think it will be what it looked like. It’s Michonne and Rick and Carl’s door. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/98 "2014-02-13T00:27:27Z")
Probably, yeah. We in the viewing audience have gotten so used to mind-\_\_\__s that we kind of expect them, even where none have been provided. ^_^ ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/99 "2014-02-13T00:33:53Z")
How come Rick and Carl were walking? Seems like vehicles would be unlimited or has enough time passed that gasoline has broken down? ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934/100 "2014-02-13T00:36:13Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > My money is that Michone has Carl’s shoe and is returning it. It would suck to be in the zombie apocalypse without shoes. Carl’s probably due for some new shoes anyway. Growing boy means growing feet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-09-after-open-spoilers/680934.md?page=6)