# The Walking Dead; 4.16 "A" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 30, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942 "2014-03-30T23:37:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/101 "2014-03-31T18:50:21Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > We saw some people’s breath as they talked, so it can’t be that hot. I forgot which scene, but I noticed it at the time. One of the “bad guys” said something about it being New Year’s eve. I think Joe’s reference to it being New Years Eve was actually just a anecdotal reference to the fact that it turned out to be a “big night” for him and his boys. Not that it was in fact New Years Eve. And, yes, as a local GA viewer, sure looks like late fall to me. Leaves are still falling, but night time temps probably down into the low 40s. ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/102 "2014-03-31T19:01:56Z")
What is it with the apocalypse and pedophilia? I wondered this when I saw “The Road,” and now it pops up here. I got the impression from what Joe was saying that the whole gang was waiting to take turns with Carl, not just that one guy (although he possibly could have just been saying that for Rick’s benefit). So either this group of hunter/survivalists that found each other all happen to be pedophiles, or something about the situation turns your otherwise run-of-the-mill jackass into somebody who seeks out children. I’m not sure which is more disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/103 "2014-03-31T19:04:00Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > I’m not spoiling anything from the comics, I’ve purposefully avoided the comics. One of my co-workers has the whole collection, and I’ve refused to look at them. > > Someone mentioned the book _Lucifer’s Hammer_ upthread, and that’s exactly what i was thinking of when I began to think cannibalism. Here is why. In the book, the world has devolved into gangs and factions fighting each other over dwindling resources. One of the groups of “bad guys” turned to cannibalism fairly quickly after food stocks began to dwindle. It really had two purposes though, and caloric value wasn’t at the top of the list. Cannibalism was used as an initiation rite to join their gang. The thinking was that once someone turns cannibal, they are pretty much shunned by any other group. That breaks the spirit of the individual, and pretty much guarantees their loyalty to the gang. And, in the book, some guys began to like it. > > So, back to TWD. Newbies arrive at the front gate, spooky lady immediately tries to serve them a steak. Oh, you like that, huh? Guess what, you just ate a person! Welcome to the crazy train!!! > > I think it’s plausible. Creepy good points. And Rick smacked the plate out of the other guy’s hand before Carl or anyone had a chance to take a single bite. Glen & Maggie’s group probably got suspicious and asked what the protein was, and got sent to the boxcar. Ew. I’m not completely convinced. Dang those writers! I’m not convinced they aren’t either. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/104 "2014-03-31T19:21:34Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Also the juxtaposition of warrior and farmer might have historical precedent but we’re seeing this through the eyes of the modern person. Look at us: wouldn’t we be wishing we had our iPhones or other modern conveniences all the time? Who’s going to be thinking about historical precedent? We want comfort, dammit. I didn’t express that very well, what I meant is that Rick seems to believe he can either be a peaceful farmer or a blood-drenched fighter, but it must be one or the other. Hence his putting away of his and Carl’s weapons (“They’ll just get in the way”) when he took up farming at the prison. Rick is simply wrong: putting away his weapons for good just isn’t an option anymore, but that doesn’t mean he’s doomed to wander around killing people all the time. He can be a blood-drenched farmer, someone who uses force when necessary but still tries to build a better life for his people. This strange pastoral idealism that, unless he can live without violence forevermore, his life is a waking nightmare, is completely unrelatable. And Rick was a policeman, for Pete’s sake, he should know better than most that one can use force in self-defense and still have a moral center and a meaningful life. > [@EllisDee](#): > > There was plenty of provocation. Rick heard them planning to rape Michone when she got back, and he knew her return was imminent. His only chance to save her (and Carl, as it turns out) was to exfiltrate that house asap. Casualties were justified. Hmmm, that’s not how I remember it, I’ll have to re-watch that sequence. > [@Meltdown](#): > > What is it with the apocalypse and pedophilia? I wondered this when I saw “The Road,” and now it pops up here. I got the impression from what Joe was saying that the whole gang was waiting to take turns with Carl, not just that one guy (although he possibly could have just been saying that for Rick’s benefit). So either this group of hunter/survivalists that found each other all happen to be pedophiles, or something about the situation turns your otherwise run-of-the-mill jackass into somebody who seeks out children. I’m not sure which is more disturbing. Perpetrators of child sexual abuse may or may not be pedophiles. [Quoth wikipedia:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#Prevalence_and_child_molestation) > [@](#): > > The term _pedophile_ is commonly used in the mainstream to describe all child sexual abuse offenders, including those who do not meet the clinical diagnosis standards, which is seen as problematic by researchers, as most of them distinguish between child molesters and pedophiles. There are motives for child sexual abuse that are unrelated to pedophilia (such as stress, marital problems, or the unavailability of an adult partner). As child sexual abuse is not automatically an indicator that its perpetrator is a pedophile, offenders might be separated into two types: Exclusive (i.e., “true pedophiles”) and non-exclusive (or, in some cases, “non-pedophilic”). According to a U.S. study on 2429 adult male sex offenders who were categorized as “pedophiles”, only 7% identified themselves as exclusive; indicating that many or most child sexual abusers may fall into the non-exclusive category. It’s safe to say Joe’s gang were non-exclusive, probably willing to rape whomever they could catch and pin down. ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/105 "2014-03-31T19:26:16Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > It’s safe to say Joe’s gang were non-exclusive, probably willing to rape whomever they could catch and pin down. Okay, yeah, I see that – it didn’t look like they were making much of a distinction between Carl and Michonne. Still, none of them tried to rape Daryl when they found him. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/106 "2014-03-31T19:29:20Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > It’s safe to say Joe’s gang were non-exclusive, probably willing to rape whomever they could catch and pin down. One reason why I hate gangs so much. I just don’t get that mentality that forms, rape anything that moves the first chance you get. Why? I’m a guy and I’ve been around plenty of groups of guys and no one ever said, “hey, let’s go rape someone!” Where does that come from? I could go without sex for the rest of my life. Just give me some porn once in awhile. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/107 "2014-03-31T19:35:57Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > …I could go without sex for the rest of my life. Just give me some porn once in awhile. Well, in the zombie apocalypse, pretty sure RedTube is no longer just a click away!! :D:D ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/108 "2014-03-31T19:42:18Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > Okay, yeah, I see that – it didn’t look like they were making much of a distinction between Carl and Michonne. Still, none of them tried to rape Daryl when they found him. Perhaps because adult men are useful as gang members, perhaps because a, what, 13-or-so year old boy is sufficiently feminine that it doesn’t count as homosexual behavior…I’m sure the gang members could explain the distinction if asked. > [@levdrakon](#): > > One reason why I hate gangs so much. I just don’t get that mentality that forms, rape anything that moves the first chance you get. Why? I’m a guy and I’ve been around plenty of groups of guys and no one ever said, “hey, let’s go rape someone!” Where does that come from? I could go without sex for the rest of my life. Just give me some porn once in awhile. I’m sure this particular phenomenon of gangs that commit rape has been studied and I am in no way an authority, but there is the phenomenon of [unpopular norms](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20614762)… > [@](#): > > …in which people compel each other to do things that they privately disapprove. While peer sanctioning suggests a ready explanation for why people conform to unpopular norms, it is harder to understand why they would enforce a norm they privately oppose. The authors argue that people enforce unpopular norms to show that they have complied out of genuine conviction and not because of social pressure. They use laboratory experiments to demonstrate this “false enforcement” in the context of a wine tasting and an academic text evaluation. Both studies find that participants who conformed to a norm due to social pressure then falsely enforced the norm by publicly criticizing a lone deviant. A third study shows that enforcement of a norm effectively signals the enforcer’s genuine support for the norm. These results demonstrate the potential for a vicious cycle in which perceived pressures to conform to and falsely enforce an unpopular norm reinforce one another. So, if you’re a member of the gang, even if you’re not so fanatical about rape that you indulge at every opportunity, if you think the other gang members _are_ such people, you’ll partake too, so as to show you’re one of them. One example of unpopular norms I read about concerned binge drinking in college: when surveyed, the large majority of students believed that a) binge drinking was a bad idea, and b) other students thought binge drinking was a great idea. In this gang, it could have turned out that none of them were actually that keen on rape, they just thought the others were (after all, isn’t that what scruffy outlaw survivors are supposed to do?) Personally, I’d rather have spent more time with Joe’s gang (perhaps have them demand only Rick, as vengeance for their man’s death), than another variation on _Seemingly friendly settlement has a dark secret!_ ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/109 "2014-03-31T20:18:31Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Well, in the zombie apocalypse, pretty sure RedTube is no longer just a click away!! :D:D Yeah, the loss of the internet would be the worst part of the ZA. I’d be like Will Smith in _I am Legend_. Solar panels and raid the video store. The adult video store, too. 🙂 Ooh, and the video game store. Penthouse apartment on top of a tall building, raise veggies and set up a pigeon coop for squab. Not a bad life! ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/110 "2014-03-31T20:45:06Z")
> [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks that the empty powdered milk packaging means that Baby Judith was in that container at one time? > > I was expecting her to be in there when Rick went in. She wasn’t, so my prediction is she was in there either before Glen’s group got there, or while Glen’s group was there and had been moved for some reason. How could Judith be there when her, Carol and Tyreese are the only members of our trusty band of survivors that haven’t reached Terminus yet? Well, maybe Beth, but chances are she’s already there, in what capacity is anyone’s guess. I do wonder though: if Beth _isn’t_ there, then we have some other outside group/operator that could seriously impact the plot at some point. I’m trying to figure out how or why Terminus people would operate a former funeral home as a trap to kidnap unsuspecting survivors to bring them back there. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/111 "2014-03-31T20:47:49Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > Still, none of them tried to rape Daryl when they found him. He wasn’t their type. Y’know, there just wasn’t that _spark_ when they met. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/112 "2014-03-31T20:48:47Z")
It’s interesting that Rick had the sense to reconnoiter first, but Abraham the military guy walked right in. Maybe Carol will be smart and suspicious enough to properly investigate Terminus and rescue our guys. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/113 "2014-03-31T21:19:45Z")
Maybe the Terminus folks are just really BAD at foraging and scavenging–i’m just being a little factious. Basically they cannibalize so they don’t have to go out on raids and risk their lives. They honey-trap people. The enclave is clearly traumatized from events (the candle shrine room) and they have taken the whole US vs. THEM attitude that the show has played with for seasons now to heart. Everyone else is fodder to keep them alive. I think another faction took Beth. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/114 "2014-03-31T21:25:29Z")
This article on [comicbook.com](http://comicbook.com) shows a still from a deleted scene and some extra speculation. [The Walking Dead Season Finale: Does This Deleted Scene Hint At Terminus's Backstory?](http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/03/31/the-walking-dead-season-finale-does-this-deleted-scene-hint-at-terminuss-backstory/) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/115 "2014-03-31T21:38:23Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > This article on [comicbook.com](http://comicbook.com) shows a still from a deleted scene and some extra speculation. [The Walking Dead Season Finale: Does This Deleted Scene Hint At Terminus's Backstory? - ComicBook.com](http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/03/31/the-walking-dead-season-finale-does-this-deleted-scene-hint-at-terminuss-backstory/) Interesting. “Fight off these Walkers and you have earned the right to join us”? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/116 "2014-03-31T21:55:09Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > How could Judith be there when her, Carol and Tyreese are the only members of our trusty band of survivors that haven’t reached Terminus yet? Well, maybe Beth, but chances are she’s already there, in what capacity is anyone’s guess. I’m curious as to why you would assume Carol and Tyrese aren’t there but assume Beth is? Any or all of them could still be on the road or already be there and just not have been seen by Rick or Glen and their respective crews. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/117 "2014-03-31T21:58:47Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > It’s interesting that Rick had the sense to reconnoiter first, but Abraham the military guy walked right in. > > Maybe Carol will be smart and suspicious enough to properly investigate Terminus and rescue our guys. I think that it would be fun to see Carol and Tyreese find Beth, and then have the three of them save the rest of the group. I also was kind of hoping that they would show Beth escaping / overcoming her so-far-undisclosed captor(s) and then happening upon Daryl’s new buddies at just the right time. She and Daryl could manage to off the “biker-gang-wannabe” dudes just as they were revealed to be truly despicable individuals. But it went down a different way, instead… ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/118 "2014-03-31T22:00:34Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > You do need to watch it again, no passive aggressive complaints about spoilers from the comic books necessary. It wouldn’t be the first time. I miss at least half of every show I watch. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/119 "2014-03-31T22:03:28Z")
BTW, I loved that Andrew Lincoln referred to the occupants as “Termites” on TTD. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942/120 "2014-03-31T22:32:35Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Maybe the Terminus folks are just really BAD at foraging and scavenging–i’m just being a little factious. Basically they cannibalize so they don’t have to go out on raids and risk their lives. They honey-trap people. The enclave is clearly traumatized from events (the candle shrine room) and they have taken the whole US vs. THEM attitude that the show has played with for seasons now to heart. Everyone else is fodder to keep them alive. > > I think another faction took Beth. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Interesting. “Fight off these Walkers and you have earned the right to join us”? RE: Beth, I think it’s a lone crazy person/mortician who wants a new friend to play with. The Termites are hyper paranoid about strangers with a zero tolerance policy. If you don’t immediately seem to fit in, you get stuck in a boxcar. They can’t let you leave, because you might carry a grudge and come back with an assault squad. So what do they do with you? Eat you? Feed you to Walkers? Maybe when one of their own dies and turns, they keep them around to dispose of their later captives? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-16-a-open-spoilers/684942.md?page=7)