# The Walking Dead; 5.03 "Four Walls and a Roof" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 27, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618 "2014-10-27T00:39:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/21 "2014-10-27T15:30:31Z")
> [@flaming\_yawn](#): > > … thing that bothers me …small thing but what season is it and what is the temperature? One is in a winter coat, one is in a tee shirt, judith in a heavy sweater? When we flashed on Morgan he looked ready for a blizzard. The clothing and vegetation are not very seasonally consistent. I think it’s autumn; they were starting to add layers at the end of last season, and it’s only been a couple of days since then. I’d bet that Morgan’s flash-forward is early spring. They have skipped winter twice: between leaving the farm and discovering the prison, then again between Woodbury’s destruction and the superflu/final Governor showdown. They’ll probably skip it again, shooting schedules and all that ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/22 "2014-10-27T15:55:40Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Great episode. The tension when Gareth’s crew came out of the woods was awesome. It was satisfying to have Rick come back and get vengeance. Good pacing is rare for this show, and this season has been as good as the first episodes of season one. Keep it up - this could be the best season so far… Please stop having these characters be so fucking stupid. I thought for sure Rick & Co were making another stupid move. Gareth & Friends drop Bob off at the church, where they _know_ Bob will tell Rick & Co the position of their camp. Rick & Co head off toward the school. If I were Gareth, I’d see that as a perfect opportunity to come in on their flank and take the church – which is exactly what happened. I couldn’t _believe_ (but did) that Rick & Co would fall for that. I _hoped_ Rick & Co would be smart enough to see through the ruse and outflank the outflankers, and I’m glad that’s what happened. > [@SykoSkotty](#): > > -Gareth pleading with Rick, saying you could have killed us already but you didn’t. Rick’s response : We didn’t wanna waste the bullets. BAD ASS RICK GRIMES!! ISTM that Gareth was pleading with Rick using some of the exact words Rick (or Bob) used when he was trussed up at the trough. ‘It doesn’t have to be like this…’ Ha! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/23 "2014-10-27T16:06:24Z")
> [@elninost0rm](#): > > I would like to amend this to Beth. > > The preview of next week and all the scenes of “trapped Beth” are likely flashbacks meant to throw us off. Daryl would have good reason to instruct Beth to hide as she is young and less physically able. He probably told her to run if the person they encounter is not friendly. That’s my guess. > > Morgan makes no sense in that role nor does Carol. Both are arguably more “field tested” and it’s likely that Daryl would _insist_ that Beth remain hidden. Does Daryl even know Morgan? I was only middling pleased with this episode, largely because the Terminus people were so very stupid. Maybe it’s the pretend villain in me, but I kept wanting to scream “This is not the way to conduct this evil operation, damn it!” at them. As my best old ex-friend Dave used to say (about me :D), Gareth was too clever by half. The major mistakes that leapt out at me: 1. Returning Bob alive to the church as an amateurish attempt at psychological warfare. Returning Bob’s corpse, or just his severed head, would have had the same effect, without providing Rick & company free intel. But because Gareth wanted to be all dramatic and shit, he provided Rick with info on the Termites’ numbers, base, weapons, and so forth. 2. Monologuing to Bob in the first place. Apart from the free intelligence mentioned above, everything Gareth said to Bob was going to be repeated, and what Gareth said was only going to reinforce Rick’s group’s resolve to deal with the Termites, especially since they’d mutilated and eaten Bob. It would be one thing if the Grimes group were a bunch of wilting flowers – but they had already kicked the Termites’ asses when the Termites were much stronger, and clearly not given to emotional weakness. 3. For that matter, their entire assault was stupid. Gareth knew exactly where the Grimes group was. They have a means to make fire. They’re ruthless. They should have just waited till the middle of the night, posted half the group in front of the church and half in back, and set the place ablaze. 4. And the entire entrance to the church just screamed trap. There’s more, but I’ll start frothing at the mouth if I continue. Evil!Skald would be professionally offended at the amateurishness of these villains and would refuse to supply them with weapons simply out of disgust. Am I mistaken, or did Carl not utter a single syllable in this episode? What was up with that? ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/24 "2014-10-27T16:21:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > 1. Returning Bob alive to the church as an amateurish attempt at psychological warfare. Returning Bob’s corpse, or just his severed head, would have had the same effect, without providing Rick & company free intel. But because Gareth wanted to be all dramatic and shit, he provided Rick with info on the Termites’ numbers, base, weapons, and so forth. I thought they gave him back because he was bitten and they were afraid they’d eaten tainted meat? > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > 1. Monologuing to Bob in the first place. Apart from the free intelligence mentioned above, everything Gareth said to Bob was going to be repeated, and what Gareth said was only going to reinforce Rick’s group’s resolve to deal with the Termites, especially since they’d mutilated and eaten Bob. It would be one thing if the Grimes group were a bunch of wilting flowers – but they had already kicked the Termites’ asses when the Termites were much stronger, and clearly not given to emotional weakness. Didn’t Gareth say all this BEFORE he saw Bob’s bite? So, when Gareth said it, it was with the understanding that they were keeping Bob and continuing to use him as a food source. Gareth had no idea at the time that Bob would be returned to the church. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > 1. For that matter, their entire assault was stupid. Gareth knew exactly where the Grimes group was. They have a means to make fire. They’re ruthless. They should have just waited till the middle of the night, posted half the group in front of the church and half in back, and set the place ablaze. This would’ve killed their food source. Isn’t that why they were tracking the group? With the intention of killing them for food? > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Am I mistaken, or did Carl not utter a single syllable in this episode? What was up with that? I noticed that too. Guess the storyline didn’t call for it? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/25 "2014-10-27T16:24:03Z")
> [@SykoSkotty](#): > > I thought they gave him back because he was bitten and they were afraid they’d eaten tainted meat? My point is that they shouldn’t have given him back ALIVE. > [@SykoSkotty](#): > > This would’ve killed their food source. Isn’t that why they were tracking the group? With the intention of killing them for food. No, it would have sent their food source running outside in panic, where the Termites can shoot them down more easily. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/26 "2014-10-27T16:30:01Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > … > Am I mistaken, or did Carl not utter a single syllable in this episode? What was up with that? Could it be a cost savings? Do they pay the actors less for an episode in which they appear, but do not speak? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/27 "2014-10-27T16:37:26Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Could it be a cost savings? Do they pay the actors less for an episode in which they appear, but do not speak? Hell if I know. I’m not sure if I’m right. ---
**Author:** ![sir\_viks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@sir\_viks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sir_viks)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/28 "2014-10-27T16:51:38Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I was only middling pleased with this episode, largely because the Terminus people were so very stupid. Maybe it’s the pretend villain in me, but I kept wanting to scream “This is not the way to conduct this evil operation, damn it!” at them. As my best old ex-friend Dave used to say (about me :D), Gareth was too clever by half. The major mistakes that leapt out at me: > > 1. Returning Bob alive … > > 2. Monologuing to Bob … > > 3. For that matter, their entire assault was stupid … > > 4. And the entire entrance to the church just screamed trap … Thank you for summarizing how I felt about this episode. Although I am glad we aren’t subjected to another 4-5 episodes of Gareth hunting Rick’s group, I thought the story line was basically ended too quickly. Gareth should’ve been smarter about entering the church with his WHOLE group. He also lost the element of surprise when he entered the church & announced himself. But, then again, why would you even enter the church at all? Just like the abduction of Bob, they could’ve picked-off people 1-2 at a time, or even set fire to the church to drive them out. Yes, giving back Bob made absolutely no sense to me. Bob told Rick Gareth’s party size & their intentions, putting Rick & company on the defensive. What advantage does Gareth get in doing this? At least now we have 2-3 new story lines to concentrate on (the DC trip, Daryl returning with or without Beth/Carol, and Morgan at some distance behind). ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/29 "2014-10-27T17:08:53Z")
> [@sir\_viks](#): > > Thank you for summarizing how I felt about this episode. Although I am glad we aren’t subjected to another 4-5 episodes of Gareth hunting Rick’s group, I thought the story line was basically ended too quickly. > > Gareth should’ve been smarter about entering the church with his WHOLE group. He also lost the element of surprise when he entered the church & announced himself. But, then again, why would you even enter the church at all? Just like the abduction of Bob, they could’ve picked-off people 1-2 at a time, or even set fire to the church to drive them out. I was okay with the quick end of the storyline. And I won’t even call Gareth’s bad tactics bad WRITING, because in fact it was in character. The very essence of that dude was that he wasn’t nearly as smart as he thought he was. And that he didn’t really understand human nature; otherwise he’d never have tried to talk the people in the church into coming out of hiding. [evil!skald] I swear, villains like him are an embarrassment to the guild. [/evil!skald] ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/30 "2014-10-27T17:11:06Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > My point is that they shouldn’t have given him back ALIVE. > > No, it would have sent their food source running outside in panic, where the Termites can shoot them down more easily. …do you think that’s the reaction Rick’s company would have? Or more importantly, do you really think that’s the kind of reaction the Termites would believe that Rick’s company would have. Because…nope. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/31 "2014-10-27T17:13:54Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …do you think that’s the reaction Rick’s company would have? > Or more importantly, do you really think that’s the kind of reaction the Termites would believe that Rick’s company would have. > > Because…nope. People who wake up in the middle of the night to smoke and flames tend to panic. It’s a better tactic than walking into the church and announcing your presence. There was simply no point to that. Gareth and company had already revealed by word & deed that they intended to eat and kill – NOT IN THAT ORDER – their captives. No one knowing that – not even the essentially useless Eugene and Gabriel – was going to come out when called. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/32 "2014-10-27T18:13:44Z")
[QUOTE=Roundabout] It’s definitely good to see Michonne reunited with her Excalibur though. [/QUOTE] Made me think of the “At last my arm is complete again!” scene from SWEENEY TODD. Watching TALKING DEAD I was surprised how many people had “conflicted” opinions about Gareth, and it was strictly because the actor is good looking. If he looked like DJ Qualls the same people would probably have been calling for his execution before they even found out he was a cannibal. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/33 "2014-10-27T18:31:52Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Made me think of the “At last my arm is complete again!” scene from SWEENEY TODD. I’m glad I’m not the only one! Though I still think she was better off without it. > [@](#): > > Watching TALKING DEAD I was surprised how many people had “conflicted” opinions about Gareth, and it was strictly because the actor is good looking. If he looked like DJ Qualls the same people would probably have been calling for his execution before they even found out he was a cannibal. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/34 "2014-10-27T18:34:00Z")
My understanding is he’s huge on CBC which makes me think they wouldn’t drop him at the first whiff of scandal. Question asked from ignorance: How puritanical does Canadian pop culture tend to be with sex scandals? I know that in the U.S. it would make huge headlines of course, but as long as he’s making ratings and money for the network he could probably appear in ads for ball gags and fleshlights and they’d stick by him; only if his ratings were slipping would they be likely to take the moral high road. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/35 "2014-10-27T18:46:57Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > My understanding is he’s huge on CBC which makes me think they wouldn’t drop him at the first whiff of scandal. > Question asked from ignorance: > > How puritanical does Canadian pop culture tend to be with sex scandals? > > I know that in the U.S. it would make huge headlines of course, but as long as he’s making ratings and money for the network he could probably appear in ads for ball gags and fleshlights and they’d stick by him; only if his ratings were slipping would they be likely to take the moral high road. …we’re…we’re not still talking about Gareth are we? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/36 "2014-10-27T18:58:14Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Though I still think she was better off without it. Why does everything have to have emotional baggage attached to it in the show? If I were in a zombie apocalypse, I’d be happy as hell to find my lost katana for what it is and not as some symbol of my lost humanity or whatever. Likewise with the moral dilemma they are trying to create for Rick & Co. How many freakin’ chances are they supposed to give these Termite A-holes? They tried to kill Rick & co already. Rick showed amazing restraint already by not going back and finishing them all off, as did Tyrise (as he apparently didn’t kill that dude). And Rick’s reward for his compassion is that Gareth swipes one of his people, eats his leg, tries to kill the rest of the group and threaten to eat anyone else they met along the way. There really isn’t a good case for NOT killing Gareth and his pals. > [@sir viks](#): > > Gareth should’ve been smarter about entering the church with his WHOLE group His whole group of 5? > [@Skald the Rhymer](#): > > The very essence of that dude was that he wasn’t nearly as smart as he thought he was. And that he didn’t really understand human nature; otherwise he’d never have tried to talk the people in the church into coming out of hiding. Gareth and his friends were a bunch of nerds. Elaborate traps. Counting spent rounds. Hand-held radios. The Boy Scout markings on the trees. The whole industrialized butchering process. The Grade “A” that no one saw. Nerds! ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/37 "2014-10-27T19:02:06Z")
Somebody remind me: who is Beth again? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/38 "2014-10-27T19:11:12Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Why does everything have to have emotional baggage attached to it in the show? Because things have emotional baggage attached to them. Besides, what I meant is that the katana DIDN’T have emotional import for Michonne. It’s a tool. A very useful tool, to be sure, but nowhere near as important to her as actual people. That was the whole point of her speech to Rick in the previous episode. She didn’t miss the sword in the way she misses Andrea and Herschel, and she’d rather be without it and with people (read: Carl & Rick & Daryl) whom she loves than with it and without people she’d love. I prefer the human Michonne to the memetic badass one. > [@](#): > > Likewise with the moral dilemma they are trying to create for Rick & Co. How many freakin’ chances are they supposed to give these Termite A-holes? They tried to kill Rick & co already. Rick showed amazing restraint already by not going back and finishing them all off, as did Tyrise (as he apparently didn’t kill that dude). And Rick’s reward for his compassion is that Gareth swipes one of his people, eats his leg, tries to kill the rest of the group and threaten to eat anyone else they met along the way. I actually agree with not going back to kill the Termites in the season premiere. It wasn’t mercy; it was just better sense. They’d have been wading into a place overwhelmed by zombies to take on an unknown number of human unfriendlies. They’d escaped without losing anyone from their group; best to take the win. > [@](#): > > There really isn’t a good case for NOT killing Gareth and his pals. In this episode, I agree. > [@](#): > > Gareth and his friends were a bunch of nerds. Elaborate traps. Counting spent rounds. Hand-held radios. The whole industrialized butchering process. Yep. As I said, they had overthought their plan, as well as not taking into account the demonstrated badassery and loyalty of Rick’s group. Gareth didn’t understand human nature. If had had, he’d have known that, even if Rick had been remotely inclined to be merciful at the church, every word he was saying was working against him. “You don’t know what it’s like to be hungry” indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/39 "2014-10-27T19:12:11Z")
What was the deal with the A? When we saw it, we said “Anarchists too?”, but obviously it was supposed to mean something. They already marked a tree right next to the church, so it wasn’t for navigation. It couldn’t be for intimidation because they already dumped a partially eaten guy out front, and that really gets your point across. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618/40 "2014-10-27T19:13:29Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …we’re…we’re not still talking about Gareth are we? Oops… [Emily Litella]Never mind…[/Emily Litella] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-03-four-walls-and-a-roof-open-spoilers/702618.md?page=3)