# The Walking Dead; 5.05 "Self Help" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 10, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199 "2014-11-10T00:55:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/21 "2014-11-10T14:27:52Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Exactly. Worst reveal…well, probably not ever, but lord it was unconvincing. > > I get the Abraham is a soldier, on his mission, but really, people would really have to work to convince me to leave my current shitty location and go to a more crowded shitty location on the word of one guy. Nuh-uh. I’m thinking that if Abraham was in his proper mind when first confronted with Eugene, he might have been more skeptical. As it happened, though, he had just been traumatized by finding the remains of his family, so was at an emotionally-vulnerable state that “Billy Ray Scientist” was able to exploit. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/22 "2014-11-10T14:30:51Z")
It didn’t cause the truck to flip - it caused the engine to blow, resulting in Abe losing control of the wheel from the force of the blast, then clipping a vehicle on the road ----- then it flipped over. First time I’ve ever come here and checked “didn’t like it.” None of these “newer” characters are like-able and they seem really really dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/23 "2014-11-10T14:35:39Z")
> [@SykoSkotty](#): > > First time I’ve ever come here and checked “didn’t like it.” None of these “newer” characters are like-able and they seem really really dumb. I think Eugene purposely found a group like that. He can manipulate a group of dumb jocks into keeping him alive. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/24 "2014-11-10T14:37:51Z")
So Abraham’s family left him because he killed some dudes that were hurting them? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/25 "2014-11-10T14:46:19Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > So Abraham’s family left him because he killed some dudes that were hurting them? Because he was prone to violence and they were more scared of him than the Zombies. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/26 "2014-11-10T14:51:50Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > So Abraham’s family left him because he killed some dudes that were hurting them? Yeah, they did a bad job with the flashbacks on Abraham’s back story. First, the flashbacks themselves were so short as to be more frustrating than intriguing. Secondly, they really didn’t make much sense. They could have easily done away with some of the leaden, ponderous dialog in the bookstore to give a little more attention to fleshing out that backstory. Was his cut that won’t heal supposed to be akin to Lady Macbeth’s damned spot? Ugh. Yeah, I get that it’s some kind of reflection on the use of violence and its effect on the people who use it, but that shit’s kind of played out. The issue is of interest to the audience only to a point. We don’t need every character to beat the question to death with a can of soup. Plus, being a hemophiliac in the ZA is not going to turn out well. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/27 "2014-11-10T14:53:24Z")
The lady on ‘The Talking Dead’ seems so proud of the zombie fire hose scene and even mentions that they had trouble filming it because they couldn’t get the truck to start. In the show, the truck clealy won’t start yet Eugene is still able to hose down all the walkers with high pressure water. Why do the writers get to call us stupid to our faces and think they can get away with it? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/28 "2014-11-10T15:01:38Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Because he was prone to violence and they were more scared of him than the Zombies. And we don’t know if they were “hurting the family”. They may have just been competing for the same resources and Abe went into overdrive. I think Rosie and Abe were more a relationship of convenience rather than a Glen/Maggie type relationship. Eugene not knowing wasn’t a surprise. The only question was when everyone would find out. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/29 "2014-11-10T15:02:45Z")
The guys that Abraham violently killed in the grocery store were neighbors and friends who raped his wife while he was away from the group. None of that was obvious to me while watching the show but was explained on “The Talking Dead”. I think it is really lousy storytelling when you have to explain what happened on the show on the talk show that airs after the show. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/30 "2014-11-10T15:03:09Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > I’m thinking that if Abraham was in his proper mind when first confronted with Eugene, he might have been more skeptical. As it happened, though, he had just been traumatized by finding the remains of his family, so was at an emotionally-vulnerable state that “Billy Ray Scientist” was able to exploit. Point taken. > [@](#): > > “Billy Ray Scientist” :D:D ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/31 "2014-11-10T15:04:58Z")
> [@randwill](#): > > The guys that Abraham violently killed in the grocery store were neighbors and friends who raped his wife while he was away from the group. None of that was obvious to me while watching the show but was explained on “The Talking Dead”. I think it is really lousy storytelling when you have to explain what happened on the show on the talk show that airs after the show. I missed that as well. And soft-pedaling rape that much after five seasons of what’s gone down in the WD is just…precious. Or something. Pass more coffee, please. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/32 "2014-11-10T15:12:20Z")
> [@randwill](#): > > The guys that Abraham violently killed in the grocery store were neighbors and friends who raped his wife while he was away from the group. None of that was obvious to me while watching the show but was explained on “The Talking Dead”. I think it is really lousy storytelling when you have to explain what happened on the show on the talk show that airs after the show. The last time they did a reveal like this on Talking Dead (TD) was about how Terminus operated. Then they explained it in the next episode. So maybe it will be explained next time Glenn’s turn comes up. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/33 "2014-11-10T15:15:37Z")
> [@randwill](#): > > The guys that Abraham violently killed in the grocery store were neighbors and friends who raped his wife while he was away from the group. None of that was obvious to me while watching the show but was explained on “The Talking Dead”. I think it is really lousy storytelling when you have to explain what happened on the show on the talk show that airs after the show. Yeah, that irks me, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/34 "2014-11-10T15:51:08Z")
The toilet tank in the bookstore would not have any water left after 2+ years of evaporation (even with the lid on) plus leakage at the flapper valve and/or tank bolts. Didn’t the blood and guts on the fire truck seem rather fresh? Bright red and gooey, instead of blackened and dried-out. Judging from the condition of the zombies and the word choice on the grafitti, it seems like they intended this town to be more or less untouched since near the beginning of the ZA. What kind of range does a fire truck have anyway? They’re not really intended to take long trips. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/35 "2014-11-10T15:56:23Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > Yeah, that irks me, as well. In this case, it also didn’t help to clarify the episode, since it makes less sense that his family would flee from Abraham after he takes vengeance on the people who assaulted them. Having a horrified reaction to him going over the top when it wasn’t warranted I can see (even if taking off on your own with 2 young kids is still very stupid). That story, I just can’t comprehend. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/36 "2014-11-10T16:11:22Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > In this case, it also didn’t help to clarify the episode, since it makes less sense that his family would flee from Abraham after he takes vengeance on the people who assaulted them. Having a horrified reaction to him going over the top when it wasn’t warranted I can see (even if taking off on your own with 2 young kids is still very stupid). That story, I just can’t comprehend. It really doesn’t make sense to me, either. Just like Carl avoiding Rick after the killed the guy that was trying to rape him. The proper thing to do is say, “Thanks, Dad.” ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/37 "2014-11-10T17:13:59Z")
> [@randwill](#): > > The guys that Abraham violently killed in the grocery store were neighbors and friends who raped his wife while he was away from the group. None of that was obvious to me while watching the show but was explained on “The Talking Dead”. I think it is really lousy storytelling when you have to explain what happened on the show on the talk show that airs after the show. I wonder ed because that is also his back story in the comic except he also had a teenage daughter as well. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/38 "2014-11-10T17:29:27Z")
…did we drop “the comics don’t exist for intents and purposes of this thread” rule? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/39 "2014-11-10T17:30:13Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > we had another example of the strange inability for people on this show to drive (like with the open road car crash that Lori managed to pull off). Ultimately, they did explain it, but it was still weird that nobody in the bus stopped to ask, “What happened?” > [@simster](#): > > I’m still trying to figure out how glass in the gas tank manages to flip a bus. > [@SykoSkotty](#): > > It didn’t cause the truck to flip - it caused the engine to blow, resulting in Abe losing control of the wheel from the force of the blast, then clipping a vehicle on the road ----- then it flipped over. People who survive the ZA lose their ability to operate motor vehicles, apparently. And the SO had mocked an insurance commercial (‘Five callers ahead of us, Jimmy!’) because it shows two cars on an open, straight road in the desert that collided. How? I don’t buy ‘the explosion jerked the wheel and Abe lost control’ explanation. When we watched the show, I didn’t hear any explosions. (Being a Diesel bus, it wouldn’t have exploded; there’d just be an engine fire. Even gasoline probably wouldn’t explode.) It appeared to me that Abe was not paying attention to his driving, and was looking at Eugene. The baffling part is that they were on a straight road. How could he not see a bunch of strategically crashed cars before he came upon them? > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Was his cut that won’t heal supposed to be akin to Lady Macbeth’s damned spot? > > Plus, being a hemophiliac in the ZA is not going to turn out well. I was thinking about open wounds and zombie pathogens. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/40 "2014-11-10T17:41:43Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I don’t buy ‘the explosion jerked the wheel and Abe lost control’ explanation. When we watched the show, I didn’t hear any explosions. (Being a Diesel bus, it wouldn’t have exploded; there’d just be an engine fire. Even gasoline probably wouldn’t explode.) There was definitely some sort of small explosion. I had thought it was a tire blowing out, which would also explain the loss of control, until the later explanation came out which I agree doesn’t make sense. I also rolled my eyes at the fire hose that magically works without an operating pump to generate pressure, but oh well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199.md?page=3)