# The Walking Dead; 5.05 "Self Help" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 10, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199 "2014-11-10T00:55:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/41 "2014-11-10T17:52:08Z")
Watching the firehose scene, first I thought “no, they couldn’t…” followed by wide eyed terror, then fits of uproarious laughter. This is self parody. What’s next? Fighting the walkers with nerf bats? Foul language? “B-But they’re decayed and firehoses have high PSI and can knock a person over so of course they would melt…” No. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > It was hard not to see that coming. This is a case where I’m curious as to whether or not the general public saw it coming or it was just people ‘like us’ that discuss each episode. With that, I’m also curious if the writers wanted us to know that he was lying. I mean, they really didn’t go very far to hide it. Answering every question with ‘it’s classified’ got old quick, it didn’t make him a good liar, it made Abraham a gullible (and a good leader). > Also, that stupid accent made him really hard to believe so it’s hard to say if using a different accent or a different actor, but leaving everything else the same would have made a difference. It almost seemed too fake, so I was thinking it could be legit. He acts vaguely autistic, or off somehow at least – not sure how to describe his affectation, maybe it’s what the writers think a smart introverted Southerner would sound like. It could also be a reverse stereotype gotcha. Oh, you think a hick with a mullet can’t be a genomic scientist? Why you gotta be so close minded? Plus if he was lying the show would be rudderless. Which it is. Great. He didn’t seem like a good bullshit artist. You’d think people would ask him all sorts of questions, especially during downtime when there’s nothing else to do but talk. Where’d you go to school? What did you study? How was working in a lab? What happened to it and your colleagues? What do you know about the outbreak? Why were you running through a randon parking lot like a pansy? And so on. Might be more believable if he did work in a lab or related field, but was just a flunky. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/42 "2014-11-10T17:53:35Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …did we drop “the comics don’t exist for intents and purposes of this thread” rule? I didn’t know that we had one. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/43 "2014-11-10T18:03:08Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …did we drop “the comics don’t exist for intents and purposes of this thread” rule? Except that this stuff about Abraham’s back story came from the Talking Dead, which I don’t think we have excluded before. I never read the comics. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/44 "2014-11-10T18:05:36Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > People who survive the ZA lose their ability to operate motor vehicles, apparently. And the SO had mocked an insurance commercial (‘Five callers ahead of us, Jimmy!’) because it shows two cars on an open, straight road in the desert that collided. How? > > I don’t buy ‘the explosion jerked the wheel and Abe lost control’ explanation. When we watched the show, I didn’t hear any explosions. (Being a Diesel bus, it wouldn’t have exploded; there’d just be an engine fire. Even gasoline probably wouldn’t explode.) It appeared to me that Abe was not paying attention to his driving, and was looking at Eugene. The baffling part is that they were on a straight road. How could he not see a bunch of strategically crashed cars before he came upon them? agreed - I thought ‘maybe’ they had a tire blowout - or hit something on the road that caused a blowout. Cause a front tire blowout at speed _could_ conceivably cause a bus to flip (high center of gravity + high rate of speed + sudden jerk to one side). and it would be just played up to thier dumb luck (bus sitting idle for months - tires gonna dry rot to some degree) Instead - they play it as dumb as possible. That’s not how it works - thats not how any of this works. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/45 "2014-11-10T18:07:24Z")
I think we don’t like spoilers about what’s going to happen based on the comics, but if the comics can flesh out something like Abe’s back story because the show is doing a crappy job of it, I don’t mind it in spoiler boxes. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/46 "2014-11-10T18:10:27Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Except that this stuff about Abraham’s back story came from the Talking Dead, which I don’t think we have excluded before. I never read the comics. And I don’t watch the talking dead - I took it from the show that Abe was an abusive husband with anger managment issues. The family was way more scared of him than anything else. If he had a ‘reason’ to pulverize the others (whom I thought were zombies, quite honestly) - they failed miserably in doing anything but making Abe look seriously on the edge. Just the guy you don’t look at and say "yeah, I’m smarter than you’. (and don’t get me started on his facial hair and military - that shit don’t work either) ETA - smart guy should be pining for the fjords next episode. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/47 "2014-11-10T18:16:43Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Watching the firehose scene, first I thought “no, they couldn’t…” followed by wide eyed terror, then fits of uproarious laughter. This is self parody. What’s next? Fighting the walkers with nerf bats? Foul language? “B-But they’re decayed and firehoses have high PSI and can knock a person over so of course they would melt…” A _running_ firetruck would produce high PSI, a firetruck with a non-working engine…wouldn’t, at least as far as I know. > [@](#): > > He didn’t seem like a good bullshit artist. You’d think people would ask him all sorts of questions, especially during downtime when there’s nothing else to do but talk. Rick/Glenn et al would ask him question but Abe wouldn’t. Abe needed a mission and this was it. And with Abe there wasn’t a whole lotta down time, he seemed like the kinda guy that would even make the girls pee out the window of the truck so they wouldn’t have to slow down. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/48 "2014-11-10T18:19:50Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > I’m thinking that if Abraham was in his proper mind when first confronted with Eugene, he might have been more skeptical. As it happened, though, he had just been traumatized by finding the remains of his family, so was at an emotionally-vulnerable state that “Billy Ray Scientist” was able to exploit. “Billy Ray Scientist” - heh. 😃 I have to come to Abraham’s defense a bit here - Billy Ray Scientist is literally the reason he is still alive. The big, glowing sub-title over Abraham’s head for the whole episode was, “If I stop going to DC to save the world, I am going to crumble into tiny little pieces.” That doesn’t explain Rick’s group swallowing it so easily, but you know, they don’t really have anything else to do, so what the heck? Let’s go to DC. > [@SykoSkotty](#): > > \ > First time I’ve ever come here and checked “didn’t like it.” None of these “newer” characters are like-able and they seem really really dumb. They aren’t, and they do. If we had started the show with Abraham and Co., it wouldn’t have lasted one season. Dare I say the success of TWD is that we care so much about all our main characters? > [@UncleRojelio](#): > > \Why do the writers get to call us stupid to our faces and think they can get away with it? Because they have been for five years? 🙂 > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …did we drop “the comics don’t exist for intents and purposes of this thread” rule? Not that I know of. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Except that this stuff about Abraham’s back story came from the Talking Dead, which I don’t think we have excluded before. I never read the comics. **Quimby** keeps bringing up the comics. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/49 "2014-11-10T18:23:58Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > What’s next? Fighting the walkers with nerf bats? Foul language? [Pie fight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2MeJNLCvsI). ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/50 "2014-11-10T18:25:24Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I think we don’t like spoilers about what’s going to happen based on the comics, but if the comics can flesh out something like Abe’s back story because the show is doing a crappy job of it, I don’t mind it in spoiler boxes. But then we get a thread that is spoiler box after spoiler box, and it is a big ol’ pain in the ass. Better to keep on as we have been going - the comics don’t exist for the tv show discussions. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/51 "2014-11-10T18:30:17Z")
I didn’t have a problem with the force of the water ripping apart the zombies. If a pair of Keds can crush zombie skulls… I had a problem with the pumper running like it did. I had a problem with wasting all that water. I also hated (as per usual) the tactical stupidity. I really loathe the use of the rifles as clubs, too. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/52 "2014-11-10T18:41:01Z")
Towards the beginning of the episode, they showed this one female zombie with a nasty stain in the seat of her pants. Gross, but I have wondered why all the zombies don’t have potty stains. They eat, they poop, right? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/53 "2014-11-10T19:00:10Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Towards the beginning of the episode, they showed this one female zombie with a nasty stain in the seat of her pants. Gross, but I have wondered why all the zombies don’t have potty stains. They eat, they poop, right? I think it’s clear the ordinary laws of thermodynamics do not apply to zombies, and I’ve never liked or bought the virus explanation. Hell is full, so the dead are walking the earth. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/54 "2014-11-10T19:12:34Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Towards the beginning of the episode, they showed this one female zombie with a nasty stain in the seat of her pants. Gross, but I have wondered why all the zombies don’t have potty stains. They eat, they poop, right? We saw that. My wife guessed that she was shopping at Walmart when she died. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/55 "2014-11-10T19:18:46Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I didn’t have a problem with the force of the water ripping apart the zombies. If a pair of Keds can crush zombie skulls… > > I had a problem with the pumper running like it did. I had a problem with wasting all that water. I also hated (as per usual) the tactical stupidity. I really loathe the use of the rifles as clubs, too. I thought it was pretty clear that they were out of ammunition. I couldn’t quite see _how_ they’d run out so quickly, but perhaps their stores while at the church were not as great as it seemed. If Rick’s group has any bullets when next we see them, I’ll be annoyed. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/56 "2014-11-10T19:27:30Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …did we drop “the comics don’t exist for intents and purposes of this thread” rule? When is that rule from and where is it? I also know nothing about it. Games of Thrones is the only TV show I’m aware of where everyone was told explicitly to pretend the written material didn’t exist. Plus the answer to that question wasn’t actually a spoiler since it was about something that already happened on the show. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/57 "2014-11-10T19:31:30Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …did we drop “the comics don’t exist for intents and purposes of this thread” rule? If that is the rule I would have thought it would only apply to future potential spoilers. I thought comparing and contrasting the past was fair game. For example, I knew for sure Eugene was a liar because of the comics but never said it until this thread because it was only revealed in the show just now. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/58 "2014-11-10T19:38:17Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > If that is the rule I would have thought it would only apply to future potential spoilers. I thought comparing and contrasting the past was fair game. For example, I knew for sure Eugene was a liar because of the comics but never said it until this thread because it was only revealed in the show just now. I think it gets hashed out EVERY SINGLE SEASON–the comic “doen’t exist” and should not be referred to. In the past, fans of both comic and show have started separate threads. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/59 "2014-11-10T20:09:02Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I think it gets hashed out EVERY SINGLE SEASON–the comic “doen’t exist” and should not be referred to. > > In the past, fans of both comic and show have started separate threads. And it died, because unlike GoT, it got like 5 posts (and this was at a time when I had read the relevant issues). And it’s not like there was anything remotely like a spoiler. But a number of vocal participants would rather kill the enjoyment of the thread for a number of people to live in the fictional world of “the source of the material doesn’t exist”. I haven’t read anything from ‘that which shall not be named’ past the prison, hadn’t been introduced to any of these new characters, and was able to read the posts related to _shown_ events as compared to TWSNBN without any pantie twisting. I thought it added to the thread and didn’t detract from the show. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199/60 "2014-11-10T20:11:20Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I think it gets hashed out EVERY SINGLE SEASON–the comic “doen’t exist” and should not be referred to. > > In the past, fans of both comic and show have started separate threads. In a lot of ways the comics don’t matter. Lori is long since dead in the comics, but in an entirely different way. TV!Herschel and Comics!Herschel are so different as to be the same character only in name. Rick’s interaction with the governor is hugely different. Beth and Maggie don’t even exist. Et cetera. So it was possible for Eugene not to be full of shit in the TV show. The evidence from the show was such that it wasn’t surprising that he was, but you didn’t need to comics to know that. It also doesn’t bug me that Rck, Glenn, et al believed, or rather chose to swallow, Eugene’s story. Like Abraham (though perhaps not to the same extent), they _wanted_ to believe. Abraham nailed Rick especially in his speech at the church when he exhorted the group to help in the mission not for their own sake but for the sake of innocents less capable than they–particularly Judith. ETA: In other news, what was the novel Eugene was reading? Something by Hugo? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-05-self-help-open-spoilers/704199.md?page=4)