# The Walking Dead; 5.08 "Coda" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987 "2014-12-01T00:39:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/81 "2014-12-01T21:08:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I want to see that fucking priest have his face chewed off, while he’s still alive, by Walkers. You and me both! I wouldn’t mind if the scene took up half the episode, with a lot of slo-mo and close-up shots – I hate him that much! ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/82 "2014-12-01T21:11:55Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > Unfortunately, they won’t show the former. Too bad it isn’t on HBO. Which reminds me: I was surprised that Kirkman flat-out said, in last night’s _Talking Dead_, that Daryl was heterosexual. I’d thought that they were keeping that vague intentionally (to broaden his fanbase). (Of course Kirkman didn’t create that character, so what does he know?) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/83 "2014-12-01T21:11:55Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > One thing that has surprised me in this thread is that no one seems to be talking about what seems to me the theme of the season–hell, the entire show: the group’s moral degeneration. I think Beth was chosen to die to highlight how the group has fallen.\ I can just picture Shane with this new and improved group, saying, “Whoa, now, you’re going a bit too far here!” I do like the actions becoming less and less civilized - this is pure, brutal survival, but on the other hand, if you completely lose your humanity, what kind of civilization will recover if you ever get past the current crisis? > [@Sherrerd](#): > > \ > “Daryl balling” \ _That_ I would have remembered seeing! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/84 "2014-12-01T21:12:49Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Which reminds me: I was surprised that Kirkman flat-out said, in last night’s _Talking Dead_, that Daryl was heterosexual. I’d thought that they were keeping that vague intentionally (to broaden his fanbase). > > (Of course Kirkman didn’t create that character, so what does he know?) They’ve been known to lie outright in TD. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/85 "2014-12-01T21:28:21Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Except that they’re not doing so with their most, ah, memetic badasses, Daryl & Michonne. They’ve both become much more emotionally open and inclined to mercy as the series has progressed. For that matter, Carol’s recent increase in badassery has not made her any more emotionally healthy. > As I wrote in the post above yours, I don’t believe we’re meant to see Beth’s attempted murder as a good thing. It was to show how far she’s fallen, and how far Rick is in danger of falling. I don’t think you’re wrong about the strain in the TWD storytelling that leads viewers to debate ‘how far is too far; how brutal is too brutal.’ I agree that those questions are being posed intentionally. But I tend to fall on the side of believing that the showrunners **do** want us to conclude that _'In The Apocalypse You Have To Do What You Have To Do_’ is the best and most admirable philosophy. I don’t see them guiding the show in a way that would lead viewers to conclude that some principles of humane treatment of others are worth preserving, or that erring on the side of compassion is best, or any other similarly progressive sentiments. The fact that the first-established badasses are now showing a more humane side may be more a function of wanting to keep viewers interested: \*oh, noes, Daryl has been reading books on childhood trauma–is he now a wimp? Is Daryl going to just stand there and watch Beth be killed? No, whew, he did the right thing by murdering Dawn’s killer–huzzah! \* (Or so I imagine the prediction by the writers about the inner dialogue of The Typical Viewer.) I do think they wanted us to react along the lines of ‘wow\*, Beth was just driven too far, but she was right to Stand Up To Dawn\*.’ Of course what they had Beth do didn’t really constitute “standing up to” Dawn, but instead something more childish, vindictive, and brutal (as you pointed out). But I suspect the showrunners do see Beth’s action as admirable and assumed viewers would, too. However, the fact that different viewers can see different things in such a scene is a sign that the show isn’t quite sunken to the level of irredeemable schlock. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/86 "2014-12-01T21:36:04Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > I can understand from a story telling standpoint to have the group on the move all the time but, if we can say “realistically” in a fantasy situation, realistically they should be looking to settle down and grow food. They can’t scavenge forever. At least the hospital had been growing crops on the roof. Now that they know there is no hope in D.C. I think next season will have to have them looking for a place to settle. Yeah, it sounds like there is going to be someplace 100 miles away where they can try to settle down once again, but of course this group will never settle down and live happily ever after. Carl understands their new reality is never staying too long in one place, and you better pick your favorite weapon and get good with it. Beth understood the here and now is the new reality, and waiting 'til it’s all over and tolerating aberrant behavior until then is so much delusional bullcrap. Rick is an emotional and mental wreck always teetering on the balance. Regarding Gabriel, I’m going to go all contrarian and start defending him. You can all gloat when I guess wrong. If he doesn’t die from tetanus, he could be an interesting new addition. Like I said before, he’s a priest with a machete. It’s as cool as Crossbow Daryl, Katana Michonne, Soldier Abe and Cowboy Rick & Son. Various characters have played the role of moral compass in various ways. I’m over Tyreese. Beth is done. Let’s watch the priest struggle with his place in the ZA, and what he contributes to the ongoing question of “what does it mean to be human and civilized in the new reality? What does survival at all costs mean?” ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/87 "2014-12-01T21:43:24Z")
> [@elninost0rm](#): > > So does anyone know _why_ Beth essentially committed suicide-by-cop? I get that being in there might’ve altered her thinking a bit and formed some sort of abstract connection to Dawn and her philosophy, but plunging the scissors into her shoulder was obviously a direct path to the grave. > > Was she suicidal at this point? Why? I know she had feigned ideations earlier at Hershel’s farm, but she was about to be reunited with her group. Both sides were clearly cooperating. Was it because she laid claim on Noah? Was Beth’s mind so warped that she abandoned the feelings of what is now basically her family? (Quite literally in Maggie’s case!) > > Her action literally endangered her entire group, not just herself. A firefight was very nearly about to break out thereafter. > > I just couldn’t wrap my head around the decision. Open to opinions. > [@Wile\_E](#): > > 1. Why did Beth try to kill Dawn? And why didn’t she stab her in the neck if she really wanted to kill her - did she learn nothing about anatomy while she was helping the doctor? I guess this bothers me the most, it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Even with all the heart to hearts they had I don’t think I got the gist of what was going on in Beth’s head before the bullet went through it. I think Beth realized that everything that Dawn had said and done that was seemingly nice was instead just her trying to groom Beth into being her obedient and loyal ward. Dawn was much like a pimp in a pimp/ho relationship, and the more wards she had in her stable, the more power she had. I don’t think Beth was trying to commit suicide, but she was obviously willing to risk her life to prevent Noah going back to Dawn. I think she saw that action as the only way to prevent her and the group from leaving Noah behind. Probably, the fact that she had previously attempted suicide emboldened her. Since she had previously been willing to die for nothing, it probably made it much easier to be willing to die for something. ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nauplius/32/51_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/88 "2014-12-01T21:55:33Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > You and me both! I wouldn’t mind if the scene took up half the episode, with a lot of slo-mo and close-up shots – I hate him that much! And afterwards the camera pans up the side of the church and stops on the words scratched into the side: “You’ll burn for this” ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/89 "2014-12-01T22:00:47Z")
> [@Nauplius](#): > > And afterwards the camera pans up the side of the church and stops on the words scratched into the side: “You’ll burn for this” Heh. Last week I predicted he’d die pounding on the door to be let in. That totally happened, but he didn’t die. Darn those writers and their fake outs. Now I’m down with the prediction he eventually “burns for this” quite literally. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/90 "2014-12-01T22:26:35Z")
Maybe FG got bitten/scratched by a walker in his Benny Hill-esque escape attempt, and he’s hiding the wound… If the show runners want to be truly dark, they could then have him… 1; reanimate and attack someone who trusts him (Carl?) 2; reanimate and eat LPITA (c’mon, you know I couldn’t resist this one 😉 ) 3; do the honorable thing and off himself 4; reanimate and get sliced and diced by Michonne ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/91 "2014-12-01T22:32:27Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Rick’s posture and verbage as he was preparing to murder a helpless, crippled opponent were a disturbing echo of Gareth’s barbecue monologue. That wasn’t murder any more than stabbing Bob in the head was murder, the guy was dead either way. All Rick did was spare him the brutal death at the hands and teeth of the walkers. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/92 "2014-12-01T23:13:05Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > That wasn’t murder any more than stabbing Bob in the head was murder, the guy was dead either way. All Rick did was spare him the brutal death at the hands and teeth of the walkers. Of course it was murder. Who bound the guy’s hands? Rick. Who ran him over with a car, breaking his back and leaving him helpless? Rick. The fact that rotters would have eaten him a minute later doesn’t lessen Rick’s responsibility. Rick killed Bob not to defend himself or others but as part of a larger plan to get something he wanted. A noble thing, to be sure, but that does not change the tenor of the act. If that had been, say, Glenn running and Dawn running him over, then shooting hin, in the head, nobody would see if t as anything but murder. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/93 "2014-12-02T00:23:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What got to me was when MIchonne decided to hack open the door blockade to let the priest in… and about 2 dozen Walkers. Christ on a rotting corpse, what a dumb-ass thing to do!! And could they come up with no better way of securing the main doors than nailing them shut? :dubious: Did it not occur to anyone that they may need to let the rest of the group back in a hurry? > [@gytalf2000](#): > > I hate that useless fool, and I wish that he had died screaming while the zombies tore him apart. I wasn’t happy at all about Beth dying, but I figured they were going to kill either her or Carol off in this episode. Eh, better Beth than Carol. > [@MeanJoe](#): > > I’m sure other posters with better memory than me can tell me if I’m wrong or not but I seem to recall Morgan having the rabbits foot in season 1. Maybe he gave it to his son when he was frightened? It’s a very fuzzy recollection so I may be completely off base. I’m pretty sure the rabbit’s foot belonged to his son. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/94 "2014-12-02T00:26:14Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The fact that the first-established badasses are now showing a more humane side may be more a function of wanting to keep viewers interested: \*oh, noes, Daryl has been reading books on childhood trauma–is he now a wimp? Is Daryl going to just stand there and watch Beth be killed? No, whew, he did the right thing by murdering Dawn’s killer–huzzah! \* (Or so I imagine the prediction by the writers about the inner dialogue of The Typical Viewer.) When did Darryl commit suicide? I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/95 "2014-12-02T00:30:26Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Thanks - I’ll have to re-watch with that music in my head now. 🙂 > > Heh. 😃 > > I wouldn’t miss either of them. Hopefully Gabriel will get his shit together now and start not being dead weight. > > Interesting question - maybe the virus that re-animates dead people makes living ones infertile. I’m still trying to figure out how Lori got pregnant - maybe the virus wasn’t as common right at the start of the ZA and they snuck one by. Maybe she wasn’t lying to Rick and Judith is his thus conceived pre ZA. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/96 "2014-12-02T01:14:14Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > …I’m pretty sure the rabbit’s foot belonged to his son. A fat lot of good _that_ did him! Probably explains what Morgan was laughing at. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/97 "2014-12-02T02:22:47Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > When did Darryl commit suicide? I’m confused. Oops! Yes, that should have been: > [@](#): > > The fact that the first-established badasses are now showing a more humane side may be more a function of wanting to keep viewers interested: oh, noes, Daryl has been reading books on childhood trauma–is he now a wimp? Is Daryl going to just stand there and watch Beth be killed? No, whew, he did the right thing by murdering **Beth’s** killer–huzzah! (Or so I imagine the prediction by the writers about the inner dialogue of The Typical Viewer.) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/98 "2014-12-02T02:24:47Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I’m pretty sure the rabbit’s foot belonged to his son. > [@cmyk](#): > > A fat lot of good _that_ did him!Probably explains what Morgan was laughing at. It didn’t do the _rabbit_ much good, either (to use the time-honored joke)… ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/99 "2014-12-02T05:24:25Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > … > > Regarding Gabriel, I’m going to go all contrarian and start defending him. You can all gloat when I guess wrong. If he doesn’t die from tetanus, he could be an interesting new addition. … I just had a thought, if Father Gabriel dies of tetanus will he still have lockjaw and be unable to open his mouth after death? Maybe he could be a new pet for Michonne - just chop off those pesky arms and he’s good to go. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/100 "2014-12-02T11:54:28Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Like I said, HR manger types… “Ox, ass, gather your things. You get two weeks severance.” mmm [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987.md?page=6)