# The Walking Dead; 5.08 "Coda" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987 "2014-12-01T00:39:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/121 "2014-12-03T01:16:22Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > It being a headshot didn’t make any sense to me either. I get the close in–stab in the chest by Beth but the gunshot came on so immediately that it read as Dawn acting first. Dawn reflexively drawing and shooting Beth in the torso would have made more sense and achieved the same outcome-- although I think they wanted it to be clear that Beth was dead immediately so there wasn’t a cry of “But they’re in a hospital!” She shot up, the bullet came out the top of Beth’s head. Makes sense if the gun was between them. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/122 "2014-12-03T01:21:09Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Gareth implied very strongly, and may have said outright, that the Termites killed and ate their kids. If he _did_ say outright that babies had been born since the ZA (as part of a remark about the Termites’ dietary practices), then that would shut down some options for ‘Judith’s conception and/or birth and/or physiology prove to be unique’ storylines. Not _all_ options, though. It could be that the writers would point up the irony in the Termites having been so focused on surviving that they’d eat babies–not realizing that they were destroying their own best chance of ultimate survival in the process. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > And it’s ludicrous to think that a bite from Judith will be known to kill but not walkerize a person, because they always administer prophylactic brain damage to anyone who dies of a different cause, and also because a baby’s bite is so impuissant that any person Judith bit who dies will be presumed to have perished from another cause… This is a misreading of the hypothetical I was proposing. I should have been clearer, and instead of writing > [@Sherrerd](#): > > A possible means: Judith could bite some human who was attacking the group. Then the attacker dies–but does not go walker. …I now see that I should have written: > [@](#): > > Then, some time later, from an unrelated incident, the attacker dies–but does not go walker. The point in my hypothetical was that something in Judith’s saliva had the heretofore unseen effect of keeping a person from going walker. I wasn’t saying that Judith’s saliva would kill. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/123 "2014-12-03T01:22:06Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think Rick was in a coma for three months prior to the ZA - I’m not sure how quickly he reunited with Lori and Carl. Maybe she was pregnant previous to the ZA. > > If this show was more clever, I might think we’re onto something here, with the complete lack of other babies showing up two years into the ZA, but it could just be that the Walking Dead writers just haven’t thought to include any. Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. At least, it had to plausibly be Rick’s daughter or she wouldn’t have even suggested it. I’ve always thought it was weird when people suggested that the show is called the Walking Dead because you’ll become a walker eventually. This makes no sense. You’d become a Walking Walking Dead. But, if there are no babies after the ZA then the name would make sense as the species is indeed dead even if some people are still alive. I doubt that’s where they’re going with the story but that would be a truly creepy story. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/124 "2014-12-03T01:25:33Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > A possible means: Judith could bite some human who was attacking the group. Then the attacker dies–but does not go walker. That is a cool skill but pretty useless if death is part of the deal. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/125 "2014-12-03T01:31:53Z")
[QUOTE=Sherrerd] A possible means: Judith could bite some human who was attacking the group. Then the attacker dies–but does not go walker. [/QUOTE] Now, if this is true I think we have just found a weapon for Father Gabriel. He surely wouldn’t object to wielding a baby. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/126 "2014-12-03T01:36:59Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Being the simplest answer, it’s probably the correct one. It could get very interesting if they do decide to go that way - all of a sudden, LPITA becomes a lot more valuable to everyone. > > Good points. I think I’ll do some research on this. That doesn’t follow. If there is are no more babies after the ZA, then she won’t be able to have babies either. Why would she be able to? She’d be no different than all the other people conceived pre ZA, just delived post ZA. Why would that make her special exactly? In fact, there are likely other babies who have survived under this scenario but like galexies, they’ll likely never meet another one. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/127 "2014-12-03T01:44:42Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I don’t know if there’s any canonical answer, and if it varies between TV and comics, but many things give me the impression it was no more than a couple of weeks. Maybe it’s sloppy filmmaking, but he hadn’t lost any weight or coordination, which starts being significant in about a month, and his wound was still fresh enough to have stitches and dressings. > > Is there an official answer on this? Dude, the Grimes boys heal fast. Look how quick Carl bounced back from being shot. I think the coma was 4, 5 hours tops. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/128 "2014-12-03T01:53:31Z")
Just in this episode Rick ran over a guy who had his hands tied behind his back. Then he summarily executed him. Ghost Shane approves. I’ll admit to half watching some episodes while doing other things, but I thought the point was that Dawn needed to let some things slide because if she started cracking down she’d lose control of the assholes she needed. So it was less “nice job guys, the rape’s on me. I mean her” and more like if you want to make an omelet you need to…let’s say crack some eggs. Or was it all just an excuse? Certainly she’s possessive and thinks she owns people after she does a favor for them (or invents a reason they need her favor). She didn’t seem too sad about handing out some beatings. She’s an egomaniac who thinks without her everything spirals out of control (considering some of the other cops’ behavior, maybe she’s right). Unless you think she’s a sociopath I don’t think that’s anything she couldn’t come back from. Compared to the Gov or cannibals she’s a girl scout. On another site I saw a discussion over whether it’s realistic for a bunch of rapey dudes to let a woman be their leader for more than five minutes in the apocalypse. I think there’s some validity to that point, but there’s also a lot of historical examples of not-so-progressive types supporting a woman who “gets things done” and so on. Look how many [iron ladies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Lady) there are. ---
**Author:** ![Chicago\_Faucet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chicago_faucet/32/13910_2.png) [@Chicago\_Faucet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicago_Faucet)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/129 "2014-12-03T02:09:23Z")
All the typical clichés that this show does annoy me as much as everyone else, including the clichéd ending of Beth doing something irrational when safety was assured. And, Beth’s action so annoys me, that I have to find some meaning behind it. So, I’ve been thinking about it heavily. The only thing I can come up with is that Dawn’s main method of maintaining control in the hospital was to never show weakness - even when showing weakness would be warranted and humane. So, Beth’s action of stabbing Dawn was a way of puncturing her armor and showing her weakness to everyone else. “I get it.”. As if to say, I understand how you work, and I’m going to rebel against it. I just don’t think she thought the action through, or didn’t imagine she would be shot through the head, or she thought that she felt safe enough with the group around to try and get away with such an action. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/130 "2014-12-03T02:41:05Z")
Dawn’s headshot that killed Beth may have been caused by an involuntary muscle contraction as a result of being stabbed, her finger was inside the trigger guard on her pistol, the shock/surprise of being stabbed caused her hand muscles to involuntarily contract, hence her momentary surprise reaction when she realized what just happened… That’s why Col. Jeff Cooper’s Four Rules of firearm safety are there, Dawn violated at least two of them… 1; All guns are always loaded - treat every firearm as if it’s loaded, even if it isn’t 2; never point a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy - she violated this one 3; know your target and what lies beyond it 4; keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and are ready to fire - she violated this one too ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/131 "2014-12-03T02:57:10Z")
Just rewatched the death scene, there was about a seconds worth of delay between the stab and the gunshot, and Dawn’s expression immediately after she pulled the trigger was one of shock and disbelief Judging from the shot trajectory, the gun muzzle was pointed at Beth’s chin, the bullet exited the top of her skull, Dawn did not appear to be pointing the pistol towards Beth’s head in the scene leading up to it, based on the video evidence, I’m guessing an involuntary muscle contraction in Dawn’s gun hand caused her to fire the gun As Dawn did not appear to directly target Beth, this was most likely a negligent discharge, not an intentional trigger pull ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/132 "2014-12-03T03:00:04Z")
How about this scenario? Judith dies, but doesn’t go walker, er, crawler. This implies that kids might be have missed the initial infecting event giving some hope even in the midst of the tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/133 "2014-12-03T03:02:58Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > How about this scenario? Judith dies, but doesn’t go walker, er, crawler. This implies that kids might be have missed the initial infecting event giving some hope even in the midst of the tragedy. As long as she dies, and does not grow up quickly to be the standard Sci-Fi Savior Child. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/134 "2014-12-03T03:38:33Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The point in my hypothetical was that something in Judith’s saliva had the heretofore unseen effect of keeping a person from going walker. I wasn’t saying that Judith’s saliva would kill. _Z Nation_ has already gone this route. In fact, _Z Nation_ is starting to shape up as the more entertaining, less-pointlessly-infuriating series. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/135 "2014-12-03T03:45:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > As long as she dies, and does not grow up quickly to be the standard Sci-Fi Savior Child. Pleaseohpleaseohplease let her not have that “Magical Pop-Tart Blood” for fraks sake… So say we all… ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/136 "2014-12-03T05:22:20Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > Just rewatched the death scene, there was about a seconds worth of delay between the stab and the gunshot, and Dawn’s expression immediately after she pulled the trigger was one of shock and disbelief > > Judging from the shot trajectory, the gun muzzle was pointed at Beth’s chin, the bullet exited the top of her skull, Dawn did not appear to be pointing the pistol towards Beth’s head in the scene leading up to it, based on the video evidence, I’m guessing an involuntary muscle contraction in Dawn’s gun hand caused her to fire the gun > > As Dawn did not appear to directly target Beth, this was most likely a negligent discharge, not an intentional trigger pull Dawn’s gun was either holstered still or at the least pointed at the ground. So you’re saying–with only a second of delay Dawn rotated her wrist nearly 180 degrees and fired almost straight up…as an involuntary muscle contraction? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/137 "2014-12-03T05:40:13Z")
It’s the Walking Dead, anything is possible ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/138 "2014-12-03T05:44:30Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Dawn’s gun was either holstered still or at the least pointed at the ground. So you’re saying–with only a second of delay Dawn rotated her wrist nearly 180 degrees and fired almost straight up…as an involuntary muscle contraction? If I came at you suddenly, you might raise your arm between us in defense. I could see that happening and shooting after being stabbed, either in rage or just shock. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/139 "2014-12-03T05:58:31Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Beth directly killed the guard when she pushed him down the elevator shaft. I think her comment about how she could never kill anybody came before the elevator shaft. Also, pushing the guy down the elevator shaft could be considered self-defense because he had attacked her as well. I still don’t think her intent was to kill Dawn. Those scissors weren’t that big and probably couldn’t have penetrated the chest cavity and they were in a hospital with a doctor nearby. I do think she did not care if she did die at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987/140 "2014-12-03T06:22:26Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > That doesn’t follow. If there is are no more babies after the ZA, then she won’t be able to have babies either. Why would she be able to? She’d be no different than all the other people conceived pre ZA, just delived post ZA. Why would that make her special exactly? In fact, there are likely other babies who have survived under this scenario but like galexies, they’ll likely never meet another one. Maybe it wouldn’t be about her having babies, but her having magical spit or blood or whatever. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > _Z Nation_ has already gone this route. In fact, _Z Nation_ is starting to shape up as the more entertaining, less-pointlessly-infuriating series. They actually _used_ magical saliva in the last episode! A lack of babies being born after the ZA interests me, but Judith having magical saliva (or magical blood, or whatever) does not seem like a good idea to me, but I wouldn’t put it past the Walking Dead writers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-08-coda-open-spoilers/705987.md?page=8)