# The Walking Dead; 5.10 "Them" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 16, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773 "2015-02-16T01:05:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/101 "2015-02-17T22:12:38Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I’m from earth and I’d do it, it helps keep Judith alive two ways one by masking her from attacking walkers and two freeing up her parent to dispatch said walker. > > Or at least get one of this papoose things and strap Judith to your back Rick. Are you a parent? Because I think find the notion of putting my most precious cargo on a zombie’ back so viscerally disturbing that no amount of persuasion would suffice to move me to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/102 "2015-02-17T22:13:35Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Once more, set to music this time (hum along, any tune that suits you): > > The world of WD died quickly, no more than a month, probably more like two weeks. There are now a tiny number of normals left. The ones who died or turned had little time to use up any resources. The “enemy” does not even foul or ruin resources, much less use them. Every person who was killed and eaten or turned would have dropped their entire stash of resources, where it would lie until the next, now-rare human came along. > > There is absolutely no reason to portray this world as anything but a parody of the last man on earth let loose in The Mall of America, or any WalMart. Every survivor should be equipped like a Navy SEAL. Every group should have a Mormon-like tribulations stash. There should be many hoboes or roadies who travel with nothing more than a backpack, knowing that there is an endless supply of food, water, ammo, clothing, cars, gas, tools, medical supplies etc. (barring some erosion from time, exposure, etc.) > > This whole Mad Max wasteland-in-the-heartland just drives me effing batty. > > Not to mention that stopping in a fruited area, building a small, highly defended and self-reliant base, then expanding it one house or city block at a time is an absolutely ‘duh’ strategy that only seems to be implemented in the most limited way by the most evil-minded, who are evil because it is all a wasteland out there. AAAAAUUUUUGGHHHHHHH! I think we may have discussed this before, but I don’t think you’re right. Early in the process, people are going to go Katrina on the supplies. When there is a hurricane scare, people swamp supermarkets and empty them out for supplies. In the beginning of the epidemic, people are going to hoard as much food as they can. The food isn’t going to be collected in Walmart, it’s gonna be in people’s houses. And those people might survive until it’s gone, but after three years, how much of it is gonna be left? Houses are going to be picked over time and again by different bands of survivors. If the stores in an area have in total two weeks worth of food for the local population stored in them (which is probably high), and five percent of people survive the initial troubles, that’s still less than a year for them to eat. Couple that with the fact that the food is likely to be hidden away in stashes (which may be sitting in a room full of zombies, uneaten). Think about the facility where Shane and the fat guy that shot Carl went to. There was a building with hundreds of zombies and closed doors. I imagine that was a group that got together and probably raided the area for food to hold out. Not to mention that the vast majority of food in a supermarket rots. At three years, you’re approaching the lifespan of a Twinkie. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/103 "2015-02-17T22:26:16Z")
But you’re assuming that if Survivor A finds and hoards something, it disappears when A dies or goes zombie. It doesn’t. It stays right where A dropped it, until Survivor B comes along to pick it up. So A-M band together, strip a small town, stash it in a barn, and die off. That whole hoard is waiting for N, O, P and Q-Z to find it. Given that the human population appears to be well below one percent of the starting population, maybe even far below that, there should be absolutely mountains of stuff left - whether it’s still on store shelves, hoarded in a barn or warehouse or compound, or just in a heap next to either a corpse or zombie footprints. While perishables might be getting in short supply, canned, bottled and packaged goods should be widely available. Guns? You must be kidding. Ammo, almost as much so. Cars might be getting a little hard to start, but any town should look like an Automall. No. This is deliberate nonsense aforethought by the writers, and it’s easily the worst thing about the show. Utterly arbitrary plot complicating. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/104 "2015-02-17T23:18:35Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > But you’re assuming that if Survivor A finds and hoards something, it disappears when A dies or goes zombie. It doesn’t. It stays right where A dropped it, until Survivor B comes along to pick it up. I’m not assuming that. I specifically said it would be hoarded. If the vast majority of food is in a few hoards, finding it is going to be difficult. > [@](#): > > So A-M band together, strip a small town, stash it in a barn, and die off. That whole hoard is waiting for N, O, P and Q-Z to find it. Given that the human population appears to be well below one percent of the starting population, maybe even far below that, there should be absolutely mountains of stuff left - whether it’s still on store shelves, hoarded in a barn or warehouse or compound, or just in a heap next to either a corpse or zombie footprints. Or sitting in some hidden compound, where the team hasn’t found it. > [@](#): > > While perishables might be getting in short supply, canned, bottled and packaged goods should be widely available. How much would be left? If a town has a population of a thousand people, how many days of canned goods (as opposed to perishables) do you think are in stores in that town? One week? So there are a thousand people weeks of canned goods, right? Well if you’ve got five percent of people surviving, that group of 50 people (from the original thousand people in that town) is gonna eat it in six months. If only 1 % survives, they’ll only have enough for two years. That utterly ignores stuff sitting in lost stashes. Think about it. You have a bunch of people hoarding stuff, and doing their best to hide. As more and more people die, the hoards get consolidated into smaller and smaller camps. Do you think the team has been in every single house in GA? Food isn’t going to be trivial to find. > [@](#): > > Guns? You must be kidding. Ammo, almost as much so. They aren’t low on guns. But even so, guns are also going to be hoarded, and thus harder to find than they might be. After Z-day plus two there are no guns left in gunshops or Walmarts. > [@](#): > > Cars might be getting a little hard to start, but any town should look like an Automall. I agree cars are plentiful. But there will be roads that are impassible, so you need to get cars as they are available on the far side of the road. > [@](#): > > No. This is deliberate nonsense aforethought by the writers, and it’s easily the worst thing about the show. Utterly arbitrary plot complicating. The writers aren’t perfect, but I think you’re finding fault where there is none. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/105 "2015-02-17T23:43:52Z")
look at that lovely house in the graveyard where beth and daryl had a yummy meal. seriously, once the crew got back together i don’t know why they didn’t go back to some of the places to stock up. then head out to noah’s house and dc. also why didn’t beth just get another sweater when they were in the golf club. she got cleaned up, changed her clothes, then daryl got zombie goo on her. she was standing right by the rack of sweaters! just get a new one! but no, she kept wearing the zombie goo-ed one. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/106 "2015-02-18T01:06:11Z")
There was probably a deep lesson there. You can change your shirt, but you still end up with goo on you. But yeah, no excuse for not having clean clothes in reality. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/107 "2015-02-18T01:15:05Z")
In a previous season, Rick told the group not to eat dog food. Now, he’s eating dogs for food. See? Character progression! People bickering over lack of humor: I agree for the series in general, but this episode was clearly going for a hopeless mood. Humor would have been inappropriate. The ZA would be heaven on earth for racoons and opossums. I’m not an expert on food distribution, but as far as I know if the factories and farms stopping churning out products by the millions each day the supply would fall pretty dang fast. Especially when all the meat and milk goes bad without electricity. There might be a lot of things in a strategic food reserve in some industrial site, somewhere…good luck finding that. But yeah, they shouldn’t be left wanting for clothes or tools. I remember way back in an early season I mentioned the series title had a double meaning re: the main characters and someone said I was reaching. Suck it, person I don’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/108 "2015-02-18T01:42:10Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Given the heat-n-humidity in the Southeast, you’d think the vast majority of Wave 1 and 2 walkers (the ones stricken right off the bat and immediately after TEOTWAWKI) would rot and be pretty ineffective after a few years. I’ve seen some pretty large animals going back to the earth. There’s a large tendon between the head and shoulder that takes a while to decomp, but the rest of them should be losing muscle mass and connections at the bone at this point. Limbs should start dropping off! > > (My friends and I here in New England have a running joke about zombiecicles – how effective would walkers be in the winter here? Hey, it’s a valid question.) [quoted material shortened] Cracked had an [article](http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html) about this very thing. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/109 "2015-02-18T02:44:44Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > No, they were strays gone feral. At least one had a collar; its name was Duke. The obvious reminder than the dog used to be someone’s pet made that scene even harder for me. ☹ I know the groups actions were perfectly logical & justified, but I felt the same way I did seeing the pile of stuffed animals at Terminus. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > When they reach Wash DC, they find that Congress, debating what actions to take against the Apocalypse, is locked in partisan gridlock. They tried to pass a resolution condemning the Walkers only to find that the resolution would violate the ADA, and so even that was shelved. Now I’m picturing Congress getting rapidly zombified because some old guy died during session, and it taking _days_ for anyone outside the chamber to notice. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/110 "2015-02-18T03:39:19Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Cracked had an [article](http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html) about this very thing. I scrolled down to the comments and was glad to see someone mentioned the Zombie Survival Guide, which came up with the wank that the zombie virus is toxic to all life and repels predators, insects, and even bacteria and fungi. So they don’t rot like corpses. TWD suffers from fridge logic with the people already being infected, but one can imagine it’s a low level of activity compared to actually turning. They should get infected if they get zombie goo in their system though, that’s just silly that they don’t. I noticed Maggie, I think, almost stabbed himself holstering her knife. That’d be a sucky way to go. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/111 "2015-02-18T03:45:19Z")
I’ve wondered about frozen zombies in the past too. The US south is getting hit with freezing temps right now. But, the zombies are magic, and the show isn’t about solving the ZA. It’s about surviving in a ZA that is essentially permanent. What do you do when this is the new reality? ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/112 "2015-02-18T05:57:16Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > look at that lovely house in the graveyard where beth and daryl had a yummy meal. seriously, once the crew got back together i don’t know why they didn’t go back to some of the places to stock up. then head out to noah’s house and dc. > > also why didn’t beth just get another sweater when they were in the golf club. she got cleaned up, changed her clothes, then daryl got zombie goo on her. she was standing right by the rack of sweaters! just get a new one! but no, she kept wearing the zombie goo-ed one. I think that in a situation like this, people have so few actual things to hold on to…something simple like clothing becomes massively sentimental and important. “That’s MY sweater” “That’s MY jacket” “That’s MY shirt” etc. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/113 "2015-02-18T14:08:02Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Would it have killed them to put just one tiny little shark in the mess of trees and zombies that the tornado left behind?!? There was a lot I liked in your post, but this was priceless. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/114 "2015-02-18T14:23:32Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > TWD suffers from fridge logic with the people already being infected, but one can imagine it’s a low level of activity compared to actually turning. They should get infected if they get zombie goo in their system though, that’s just silly that they don’t. Most incarnations of zombie lore, including Brooks’ fine explications, involve magic in that zombies become inert almost instantly after being brain-forked. The very spatter from their clothes can infect or kill… until two seconds after they’re piked. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/115 "2015-02-18T14:28:21Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The writers aren’t perfect, but I think you’re finding fault where there is none. And I think you are allowing them to mix tropes as mismatched as Glinda the Good and Mad Max. Okay, hoarding hoarding hoarding. Just where do you think all those hoards are going when the hoarders get eaten or turned? Do they evaporate like video-game loot and corpses? So you have first 80%, then 50%, then 10%, then maybe 1% of the population hoarding stuff… with that descent taking no more than a month. Other than perishable food… where do you propose that all that stuff went? Into hoards so well hidden, by short-term survivors who are gone, that the long-term survivors can’t find one in pretty much every house and public building? There should be a weapon next to every corpse, and the descending tree of survivors should mean that most corpses would be pretty well armed, not still carrying grampa’s old single-shot deer rifle. Or driving a rusting Ford van. Or a Kia. Or wearing rags and carrying their possessions in their arms. ---
**Author:** ![zwede](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ac91a4/32.png) [@zwede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwede)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/116 "2015-02-18T15:33:43Z")
I’m still waiting for the magical gasoline in the Walking Dead world to go bad. As anyone with a lawn mover knows, gas doesn’t keep forever. After 6-12 months it’s no good anymore. The zombie apocalypse was in 2010, yet as long as they find a car with gas in the tank they are still driving… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/117 "2015-02-18T16:26:17Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > And I think you are allowing them to mix tropes as mismatched as Glinda the Good and Mad Max. I think that’s a meaningless comment. > [@](#): > > Okay, hoarding hoarding hoarding. Just where do you think all those hoards are going when the hoarders get eaten or turned? Do they evaporate like video-game loot and corpses? I specifically said not. Is it too much to ask that you address what I’m actually saying? In a town of a thousand people there are maybe 500 homes and various buildings. Schools, offices, government buildings, and stores. Some homes will be far from the town center. When people are hiding and hoarding, it’s not going to be a trivial task to find the one or two caches in that community. Search 500 buildings, basement to attic. Do it when you could be attacked at any moment either by walkers or humans. You think that’s trivial? It seems to me that you have a cartoony view of how complex the problem of finding those caches of food are. > [@](#): > > So you have first 80%, then 50%, then 10%, then maybe 1% of the population hoarding stuff… with that descent taking no more than a month. Other than perishable food… where do you propose that all that stuff went? Into hoards so well hidden, by short-term survivors who are gone, that the long-term survivors can’t find one in pretty much every house and public building? When the survivors run out of food, they’ll start scavenging the town. They’ll have more time than the team, who are generally passing through. Think about it. It’s Z-day plus 30. Your food ran out. Your group start methodically searching your town. Eventually you’ll be in possession of all of the easily found food. Your group dies. Unless they find your group’s house, there is no easily found food in the town. > [@](#): > > There should be a weapon next to every corpse, and the descending tree of survivors should mean that most corpses would be pretty well armed, not still carrying grampa’s old single-shot deer rifle. Those corpses may have been scavenged before the Grimes team happens across them. Guns can be hoarded too. And it’s not like the team doesn’t have weapons. > [@](#): > > Or driving a rusting Ford van. Or a Kia. Or wearing rags and carrying their possessions in their arms. Since parts of many roads will be parking lots, you have to take the cars that will still start on the far side of the blockage. Certainly clean clothes would be more available than food, but maybe when you stink from lack of bathing, your clothes is a low priority. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/118 "2015-02-18T16:40:02Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > There was a lot I liked in your post, but this was priceless. Aw, shucks. :o ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/119 "2015-02-18T17:06:13Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I’ve wondered about frozen zombies in the past too. The US south is getting hit with freezing temps right now. But, the zombies are magic, and the show isn’t about solving the ZA. It’s about surviving in a ZA that is essentially permanent. What do you do when this is the new reality? [off topic] In World war Z (book, not movie) the author addressed frozen zombies. Z zombies were quite a bit faster in that tale. Lots of people fled northward in the winter and discovered that the Zs slowed considerably or froze as the temperatures dropped. The unfortunate result though was that harsh winters had little food for survivors and Springtime thawed and reanimated the zombies. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773/120 "2015-02-18T17:31:56Z")
> [@zwede](#): > > As anyone with a lawn mover knows, gas doesn’t keep forever. After 6-12 months it’s no good anymore. I often hear this repeated here, but I have used 5-year-old gas in my car before to no ill effect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-10-them-open-spoilers/712773.md?page=7)