# The Walking Dead; 5.16 "Conquer" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311 "2015-03-29T23:45:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/281 "2015-04-07T14:22:39Z")
For what it is worth, the promo for Fear The Walking Dead has a newscaster audio specifically say a VIRUS is spreading across five states. EDIT:Here is an easy way to answer this, have someone important like Daryl get a minor bite. Rick refuses to abandon him, decides to go on a run for antibiotics while everyone tells him it is futile. Show Daryl survive. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/282 "2015-04-07T14:27:13Z")
> [@grude](#): > > For what it is worth, the promo for Fear The Walking Dead has a newscaster audio specifically say a VIRUS is spreading across five states. Trusting a journalist to get science right? _THAT_ strains my suspension of disbelief. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/283 "2015-04-07T19:05:49Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > I personally see a serious contradiction between “everybody has the virus” and “getting bitten gives you a really bad infection with inevitable zombie result”. I find this objection comically trivial, but whatever floats your boat. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/284 "2015-04-07T23:06:51Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I find this objection comically trivial, but whatever floats your boat. Hmmm. In health care, the difference between “something everybody already carries” and “something pathogenic transmitted to you by a bite” is the difference between intestinal _E. coli_ and rabies. Perhaps my boat’s waterline and my sense of humor need recalibration. Or maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/285 "2015-04-08T01:50:28Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > I understand how the zombification has been portrayed. And you are of course most welcome to your own comfort level in suspension of disbelief. We all enjoy the show for our own reasons. I personally see a serious contradiction between “everybody has the virus” and “getting bitten gives you a really bad infection with inevitable zombie result”. > > Either everybody _doesn’t_ have the virus, so getting bitten _gives you_ the (fatal and transmogrifying) infection. Or everybody has _something_, but requires some additional trigger that can only be provided by an actual zombie _bite_ (not any other trauma even when accompanied by dripping zombie gore). The inconsistency bothers me. > > Especially since it could be overcome with a casual line or two of dialog, along the lines of the pseudo-explanations offered upthread. Even if the characters were making speculations rather than a report from the CDC, just paying attention to the obvious glaring discrepancy would be enough to comfort my overworked suspension of disbelief. But of course that’s just me. 🙂 They’re not related. The zombie virus is activated upon death of the carrier. The infections from a bite are not the same and presumably just normal bacteria and other junk that can infect wounds. Remember these are walking corpses so surely carrying all sorts of nasty stuff that would cause problems in an open wound. The thing that raises the dead as zombies is not related. It’s all magic anyway since there is no realistic explanation that could ever explain zombies. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/286 "2015-04-08T12:27:42Z")
The things which bug me about shows are not necessarily rational. I can’t watch the Flash show any more even though I enjoy the characters. The terribad physics displayed is just too much for me. Why does that bother me even though I have already swallowed the camel of Flash existing? Who knows? It seems like just one more small thing. But, it’s too much. I don’t think that it’s a rational decision on my part. I think it’s more of a reaction. Imho, humans are capable of rational thought but are not inherently rational creatures. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/287 "2015-04-08T16:40:08Z")
> [@theR](#): > > They’re not related. The zombie virus is activated upon death of the carrier. The infections from a bite are not the same and presumably just normal bacteria and other junk that can infect wounds. Remember these are walking corpses so surely carrying all sorts of nasty stuff that would cause problems in an open wound. The thing that raises the dead as zombies is not related. > > It’s all magic anyway since there is no realistic explanation that could ever explain zombies. I fully agree with your final sentence! It is all magic, and it’s just a TV show (I don’t read the comics). But in the TV show, gravity works as we expect. Cars need fuel, people need food, bleed blood, and feel pain. All mirror our world. Except the damn virus! I’m quite willing to accept a rationalization that there are two different modes of action. I’m a bit suspicious of the one you offer above though. We’ve seen that even the slightest bite inevitably leads to death and zombification, supporting your suggestion of highly virulent pathogenic organisms. But we’ve also seen people suffering from significant wounds have “zombie gunk” (presumably the same highly pathogenic mix, including slobber from zombie mouths) slathered all over their wounds and/or into their mouths and eyes. And they don’t get sick, and don’t “turn”. Why not? It’s just something that bothers me, perhaps more than it should. I can overlook the inclined planes leading to the top of the wall being unnoticed by both zombies and human marauders. I can overlook the characters rarely using zombie gore as camouflage despite the fact that it would make their “supply runs” ever so much safer. I can swallow a dozen such “stretchers” before breakfast. But this one grates on me. As **PatriotX** says, “The things which bug me about shows are not necessarily rational.” Apparently I’m just irrational. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/288 "2015-04-08T17:54:27Z")
The thing is, it’s pretty clear that the writers are not going to give any kind of rationalization for why bites kill you but zombie gore splattering in your eyes and mouth does not. So either you just accept that, or it will continue to bug you for as long as you watch the show. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/289 "2015-04-08T18:29:50Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > …Cars need fuel… Weeeelllll, this is another thing. Gas goes bad. Supposedly it’s been two years. No way they would have access to good gasoline after all that time to drive around in the cars they do. [A lot of reasons, here.](http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/04/09/aa.bad.gas/) Not only does gasoline oxidize, degrade, and lose volatility, but if they’re pulling supply from gas station tanks those will be highly contaminated with water and whatever else after all that time of disuse. Even with stabilizer added, it doesn’t last forever. I’m ok with the zombie bite logic (see my fanwank upthread), but every time they’re driving around in a car I just have to shut off my brain. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/290 "2015-04-09T17:24:19Z")
> [@troub](#): > > Weeeelllll, this is another thing. Gas goes bad. Supposedly it’s been two years. No way they would have access to good gasoline after all that time to drive around in the cars they do. [A lot of reasons, here.](http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/04/09/aa.bad.gas/) Not only does gasoline oxidize, degrade, and lose volatility, but if they’re pulling supply from gas station tanks those will be highly contaminated with water and whatever else after all that time of disuse. Even with stabilizer added, it doesn’t last forever. > > I’m ok with the zombie bite logic (see my fanwank upthread), but every time they’re driving around in a car I just have to shut off my brain. It’s about time they discarded the electronics, pull the fuel injectors, and replace them with carburetors tuned to run on alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/291 "2015-04-09T17:34:58Z")
I don’t mind if the biomechanics of the plague remain unexplained. I’m starting to mind that the characters persist in doing things that are stupid. It makes it harder to stay connected if I’m cheering for stupidity to be swiftly and severely punished. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/292 "2015-04-09T17:55:18Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > We’ve seen that even the slightest bite inevitably leads to death and zombification, supporting your suggestion of highly virulent pathogenic organisms. But we’ve also seen people suffering from significant wounds have “zombie gunk” (presumably the same highly pathogenic mix, including slobber from zombie mouths) slathered all over their wounds and/or into their mouths and eyes. And they don’t get sick, and don’t “turn”. Why not? If we’re willing to indulge in fanwanking here (and it appears that we are), then maybe the virus has an HIV-like quality, in that it’s more blood borne than airborne. In fact, the HIV virus doesn’t survive outside of the body for very long. Perhaps the zombie virus is still virulent as long as it’s still inside a zombie mouth/other bodily fluids. When a zombie is killed/brained, then the virus dies, as it would upon exposure to air. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/293 "2015-04-09T18:58:05Z")
It’s a sillier show, but _Z Nation_ has given some thought to the specifics of its zombathogen. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/294 "2015-04-09T19:08:33Z")
And again everyone, my objection isn’t that a tightly crafted and unassailable explanation of the specific epidemiology of zombie-ism has not been issued by that-world’s CDC. My objection is that the revealed epidemiology of zombie-ism is _self contradictory_ and the writers don’t seem to care. Just as they don’t seem to care about all the other stupidities their characters are made to perform. I’m getting tired of stifling my internal screams of “Put on some armor before you go out! Even old magazines and duct tape if you have no sporting goods stores nearby!” And “Wipe on some zombie goo before you go out hunting for supplies. It stinks but then you can walk boldly down to the supermarket, and not have to skulk furtively around, ever being surprised by hidden zombies!” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/295 "2015-04-09T19:58:15Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > My objection is that the revealed epidemiology of zombie-ism is _self contradictory_ and the writers don’t seem to care. I thoroughly enjoy _the Walking Dead_, but folks will through things at me when I point out that, after all, it is about a comic book. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/296 "2015-04-09T21:42:09Z")
perhaps if one uses chicken pox/shingles as an example. the zombie bite will give you one form of the virus. the other form lies dormant until it activates upon the hosts death. one is given by direct contact, the other airbourne. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/297 "2015-04-10T18:03:59Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > I understand how the zombification has been portrayed. And you are of course most welcome to your own comfort level in suspension of disbelief. We all enjoy the show for our own reasons. I personally see a serious contradiction between “everybody has the virus” and “getting bitten gives you a really bad infection with inevitable zombie result”. I don’t understand where the contradiction lies. Two of the rules for this zombie world are: “everyone who dies becomes a zombie” and “everyone who gets bitten by a zombie gets a fever and dies”. Why would one preclude the other? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/298 "2015-04-10T20:06:42Z")
> [@Monocracy](#): > > I don’t understand where the contradiction lies. Two of the rules for this zombie world are: “everyone who dies becomes a zombie” and “everyone who gets bitten by a zombie gets a fever and dies”. Why would one preclude the other? Since you ask, I’ll try to make my point more clear. In the actual world, there are horrible diseases that can be (and commonly are) transmitted by a bite and result in death. Rabies is the archetype of this pattern. Get bitten by somebody who has rabies, you too will get rabies, and inevitably die of it. (Given variables of actual transmission, lack of treatment, blah, blah, blah……) That correlates nicely with “everyone who gets bitten by a zombie gets a fever and dies" as a true statement. As far as has been revealed to us, except for a single case involving speedy amputation. And “everyone who dies becomes a zombie” is also true. Of course, one does not preclude the other. Both can be true statements. And, stated exactly the way you state them, indeed both are unassailable. What you’ve left unsaid is that “everybody already harbors the zombie virus” (pathogen, germ, whatever). And this has been stated as a fact in Walking Dead World. So it too must be considered as true. This poses the conundrum. If having the virus introduced into a healthy person by means of a bite _gives you a fatal illness_, then why don’t the people who already harbor this virus (“everybody” according to revealed wisdom) _also_ just get sick and die? (And, once dead, then zombify and return.) This, like a repeated water drop to my forehead, bothers me. Not enough to totally destroy the entertainment value of the series, mind you. And not so much as might perhaps be inferred by the frequency of my posts in this thread. After all, I don’t have anything else WD-related to occupy me until new episodes air. 😉 But it bothers me enough to make me grouse at the writers for ignoring it. There are tons of easy, facile “explanations” that would remove the conflict. Maybe everyone hasn’t been exposed/infected after all. Or maybe there are two things happening, one that makes people die and a different one that makes the dead zombify. Or somehow a bite serves as a catalyst, without which the harbored infection remains dormant. Or…… Well, whatever. Then I could move past this petty annoyance! (And take up the big questions, like Why doesn’t everybody roll in zombie goo before going “outside”?) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/299 "2015-04-10T21:14:09Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > This poses the conundrum. If having the virus introduced into a healthy person by means of a bite _gives you a fatal illness_, then why don’t the people who already harbor this virus (“everybody” according to revealed wisdom) _also_ just get sick and die? (And, once dead, then zombify and return.) I find your objections silly because we already know it’s not a disease, virus, or pathogen. It’s magic. We know this for a fact, beyond a shadow of a doubt, from the show itself. First, **it re-animates dead people.** Not sick people. Not comatose people. DEAD people. Therefore it must be magic, not a mundane virus. [Shane proved this to Hershel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcPKS6Rr8zY) during barnageddon. Shane: What the hell are you doing?! Rick: Shane, just back off. Hershel: Why do your people have guns? Shane: Are you kidding me? You see?! You see what you’re holding onto?! Hershel: I see _who_ I’m holding onto. Shane: Nah, man, you don’t. Rick: Let us do this, then we can talk. Shane: What you wanna talk about, Rick? These things ain’t sick. They’re not people. They’re dead. You ain’t gotta feel nothing for em 'cause all they do? They kill. These things right here. They’re the things that killed Amy. They killed Otis. They’re gonna kill all of us unless we do… Rick: SHANE, STOP! Shane: Hey Hershel, man, lemme ask you something. A living breathing person, can they walk away from this? [Shane fires three rounds] Rick: STOP IT! Shane: That’s three rounds in the chest. Could someone who’s alive, could they just take that? Why is it still coming? [Shane fires two rounds] Shane: That’s its heart; its lungs. Why is it still coming? [Shane fires three rounds] Rick: Shane, enough! Shane: Yeah, you right, man. That is enough. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311/300 "2015-04-10T21:29:46Z")
Everyone has a low level of infection that their immune system suppresses. When you die, it spreads. Being bitten injects too much into the system to fight. Why this doesn’t apply when they get blood/vomit in their mouth and eyes, well, uh, I guess they never watched 28 Days Later. I thought the town’s meeting plan was pretty stupid. Hey, we think this guy is dangerous, he somehow had a gun we didn’t know about, and we suspect his entire group might be secretly planning to take over. Let’s meet at night, in the open, all bunched together, with no armed guards, and let’s not keep track of him or his compatriots. In fact, let them hang out together in private so they can get their stories straight. Also, _yo, close that gate for me, bro!_ And that he just wanders off. Haha, what? I know they’re supposed to be soft and stupid, but I’m appealing to the “come on” principle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-5-16-conquer-open-spoilers/716311.md?page=16)