# The Walking Dead; 6.08 "Start to Finish" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 30, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999 "2015-11-30T00:59:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/81 "2015-12-01T23:31:09Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > If Carol survives (and she better) An episode where Carol dies is almost certainly my last. I might stay if Carl’s role has by then been significantly improved, to where he’s become as lethally pragmatic as she. ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/82 "2015-12-01T23:36:22Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Pretty sure we’re in day 2. Yesterday morning, all was fine until the truck barricade fell into the quarry. They quickly put Rick’s plan into motion, but within an hour or three the wolves attacked. > > Last night, Glenn hid under a dumpster, Abe found an Admiral’s uniform while waiting for Daryl, and Rick stood right next to the wall screaming loudly about how they needed to keep quiet. > > This morning, Glenn met up with Enid, the tower fell, and Daryl, Abe and Sasha got pulled over by Negan’s people. You may be right. But if so, Maggie almost gave Glenn up for dead because he was a few hours late for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/83 "2015-12-02T01:33:53Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > When Daryl and crew ran into the new badies all I could think was “oh good, another run in with a bad group.” I don’t know why it disappointed me so much. Just another Governor, Terminus, Wolf group for them to be captured by, cow down to and eventually kill. I just wanted to see them get back to their people. > > And I never liked the doctor so good riddance. What group are you talking about? Daryl wasn’t even in this episode. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/84 "2015-12-02T01:47:39Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > What group are you talking about? Daryl wasn’t even in this episode. The 2-minute prologue scene, broadcast during the first commercial break for that crappy new samurai show, and then rebroadcast during Talking Dead. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/85 "2015-12-02T02:29:47Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > The 2-minute prologue scene, broadcast during the first commercial break for that crappy new samurai show, and then rebroadcast during Talking Dead. I don’t watch the crappy new samurai show. What is this about G.I. Joe and the cute Black girl being stopped by motorcyclists? Did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/86 "2015-12-02T04:17:46Z")
A bunch of dudes carrying assault rifles, riding motorcycles stopped in the roadway facing me, and blocking my path while I am driving a two ton fuel truck? Maybe I give two courtesy horn blasts, maybe not. I sure as hell do not stop. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/87 "2015-12-02T04:36:52Z")
Except if you’re driving a fuel truck in movie/TV land, where one shot to the tank will cause a massive fireball that burns you to a crisp. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/88 "2015-12-02T09:32:21Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The show has a lot of problems. You missed my point, so I guess I’ll spell it out. People here have complained a lot about the show’s apparent propensity for killing off black characters (which doesn’t make sense to me since they’ve killed off way more major white characters, but whatever). But at the moment, the 2 characters Most Wanted Dead happen to be the 2 black guys. So if they _do_ kill off Morgan and Gabriel, we go back to Complaint #1. There’s just no pleasing some people. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/89 "2015-12-02T10:42:58Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > You missed my point, so I guess I’ll spell it out. People here have complained a lot about the show’s apparent propensity for killing off black characters (which doesn’t make sense to me since they’ve killed off way more major white characters, but whatever). But at the moment, the 2 characters Most Wanted Dead happen to be the 2 black guys. So if they _do_ kill off Morgan and Gabriel, we go back to Complaint #1. There’s just no pleasing some people. 😛 You could also say that it’s got a perchance in recent times of making the black guys assholes which the audience wants to die… So while staying alive, are campaigned to be dead, the ones acting most like first day apocalypse deniers are black. Which in a way, is a bit more hateful… But then again, isn’t that how it goes? The nice ones die. Often killed by the mistakes of the ones we want to die (I’m looking at you whining little kid with record player). ---
**Author:** ![Dingbang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@Dingbang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dingbang)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/90 "2015-12-02T17:16:45Z")
The Immortal Glen and His Magic Dumpster was bad enough, but I tried to just grit my teeth and press on. Now it’s the scene with Carol, Morgan, the Wolf, et al. I like the idea of Carol’s nihilism going head to head with Morgan’s stupid optimism, but the whole time they were facing off I was screaming “You have a gun, Carol!” And then when the trio bursts in on the Wolf holding a knife to doc’s throat, I couldn’t believe they handed over their weapons without even a moment’s hesitation. Completely out of character for the two women. (Eugene would have handed over the machete, danced the macarena and sucked the guy’s dick if told to.) These two women are not weak willed, inexperienced, soft Alexandrians who don’t know that they’re living in a kill-or-be-killed situation. For them to just immediately hand over their two firearms to a guy holding a knife, without even thinking about it or trying something, took me right out of the story. C’mon, TWD writers… I’m really trying to stick with you here but it’s getting harder and harder. Just don’t do stupid, lazy shit. (I did love Carl’s “Your dad was an asshole.” Not just the line, but Carl’s delivery. It was so good I had to rewind and watch it several times.) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/91 "2015-12-02T17:33:56Z")
> [@Dingbang](#): > > (I did love Carl’s “Your dad was an asshole.” Not just the line, but Carl’s delivery. It was so good I had to rewind and watch it several times.) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_of\_Words](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f6c823/32.png) [@Jack\_of\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_of_Words)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/92 "2015-12-02T18:11:03Z")
> [@Dingbang](#): > > These two women are not weak willed, inexperienced, soft Alexandrians who don’t know that they’re living in a kill-or-be-killed situation. For them to just immediately hand over their two firearms to a guy ‘a guy’ who was part of the nihilistic murderous gang they just tussled with > [@Dingbang](#): > > holding a knife ‘holding a knife’ _to the throat of their only medic_ > [@Dingbang](#): > > without even thinking about it or trying something, took me right out of the story. We’ll never know what you’d have thought of the writers if they’d given you a script where the medic got her throat cut (both women would have seen that as a distinct possibility). Or maybe a script where they went for the headshot, away from the relatively unpressured target practise of offing walkers, and killed their medic themselves. > [@Dingbang](#): > > C’mon, TWD writers… I’m really trying to stick with you here but it’s getting harder and harder. Just don’t do stupid, lazy shit. I’m trying to stick with the thread, but the amount of ill-thought out backseat driving from posters who expect anything other than a ripping yarn makes it harder and harder. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/93 "2015-12-02T18:23:36Z")
> [@Jack\_of\_Words](#): > > ‘a guy’ who was part of the nihilistic murderous gang they just tussled with > > ‘holding a knife’ _to the throat of their only medic_ > > We’ll never know what you’d have thought of the writers if they’d given you a script where the medic got her throat cut (both women would have seen that as a distinct possibility). Or maybe a script where they went for the headshot, away from the relatively unpressured target practise of offing walkers, and killed their medic themselves. > > I’m trying to stick with the thread, but the amount of ill-thought out backseat driving from posters who expect anything other than a ripping yarn makes it harder and harder. Gosh, **Jack** , we will be so sorry to see you go! Your sagacious and respectful contributions will be sorely missed. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_of\_Words](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f6c823/32.png) [@Jack\_of\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_of_Words)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/94 "2015-12-02T19:04:14Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Gosh, **Jack** , we will be so sorry to see you go! Your sagacious and respectful contributions will be sorely missed. Oh, I expect I’ll stick around. The most irritating contributors won’t have time to post here when they get snapped up by the TV scriptwriting industry… ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/95 "2015-12-02T19:10:51Z")
> [@Jack\_of\_Words](#): > > ’ > ‘holding a knife’ _to the throat of their only medic_ Upgrading it to “a gun to the head of their only medic” didn’t help the situation much, not should they have expected it to. They gave away their leverage in exchange for…nothing whatsoever. Too bad Abraham hadn’t come back, maybe they could have given the Wolf the RPG, too. But, if TWD has taught us anything over and over again, it’s that women and racial minorities make bad decisions, and only white men are worth listening to. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/96 "2015-12-02T19:55:07Z")
> [@Jack\_of\_Words](#): > > ‘a guy’ who was part of the nihilistic murderous gang they just tussled with > > ‘holding a knife’ _to the throat of their only medic_ You mean the guy who outright said he wanted to kill them all? How far do you think he’s gonna get? I doubt he knows about the walkers outside, they do and they must of had a pretty good idea that the doctor would die anyway if she went outside. The Wolf had no leverage, he slits her throat, they shoot him. I’d say at least part of the blame is on Carol, why have to worry about killing him now? Carol may be bad ass, but she doesn’t always think things through. The Wolf was tied up, let him rot for a bit, then find out what he knows. If he refuses to talk then figure out what to do with him. Any more the only people that are interesting, seem to know what’s going on are Michonne, Abraham, Carl and maybe Sasha. A lot of the rest do a lot of stupid stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Dingbang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@Dingbang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dingbang)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/97 "2015-12-02T20:37:19Z")
> [@Jack\_of\_Words](#): > > We’ll never know what you’d have thought of the writers if they’d given you a script where the medic got her throat cut (both women would have seen that as a distinct possibility). Or maybe a script where they went for the headshot, away from the relatively unpressured target practise of offing walkers, and killed their medic themselves. Sure you can know. I’ll tell you. In either of those alternative scenarios, I would have thought it to be far better writing, much better drama, more believable, and a bold move to actually end that standoff in a way other than the same way they did it in a 1970s cop show. If they had gone for the headshot and killed the medic, or prompted the wolf to slit her throat, I’d applaud the writers for going for it. I don’t watch TWD and expect all the important characters to escape unscathed. When characters become too important to die no matter what the situation (talking to you, Glen), a lot of the drama is lost. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_of\_Words](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f6c823/32.png) [@Jack\_of\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_of_Words)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/98 "2015-12-02T20:42:30Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Upgrading it to “a gun to the head of their only medic” didn’t help the situation much, not should they have expected it to. They gave away their leverage in exchange for…nothing whatsoever. Too bad Abraham hadn’t come back, maybe they could have given the Wolf the RPG, too. I know they’re only actors, and nobody really dies, but I also know we’re not really there, so what we’d do as a viewer from the comfort of our sofa isn’t necessarily what any character would do (or should do) in the script - neither woman felt it was worth putting the medic’s life at immediate risk. Put the guns down, maybe he doesn’t kill her straight away (he’d be a fool to, facing two potentially re-armed opponents, can we agree on that?). Not being dead straight away may not turn into ‘staying alive, with the threat disappearing at speed’ (or being eaten alive), but being dead only turns into walking dead, never into being alive again. Abraham probably would have taken the headshot, though. With the RPG… > [@Human\_Action](#): > > But, if TWD has taught us anything over and over again, it’s that women and racial minorities make bad decisions, and only white men are worth listening to. Women trip, I’ll give you that, but if you think the white male characters haven’t made plenty of bad decisions then you’ve missed a lot of episodes. > [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > You mean the guy who outright said he wanted to kill them all? How far do you think he’s gonna get? I doubt he knows about the walkers outside, they do and they must of had a pretty good idea that the doctor would die anyway if she went outside. The Wolf had no leverage, he slits her throat, they shoot him. ‘must _have_’. You’ll excuse me, I find it hard to take seriously anyone who thinks ‘of’ is a verb. Or thinks you should let your friends die sooner rather than later. Remind me to steer clear of you come the ZA. No matter what the wolf said, he wasn’t acting on it at that point - he wanted to stay alive, and they were ok with trading his life for hers. And theirs - yes, he got a couple of guns, they have an armoury, and if he tried to kill one of them, the other two would have made a move, even without their guns. > [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > I’d say at least part of the blame is on Carol, why have to worry about killing him now? Carol may be bad ass, but she doesn’t always think things through. The Wolf was tied up, let him rot for a bit, then find out what he knows. If he refuses to talk then figure out what to do with him. > > Any more the only people that are interesting, seem to know what’s going on are Michonne, Abraham, Carl and maybe Sasha. A lot of the rest do a lot of stupid stuff. Well at least your approved list includes women and minorities… ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/99 "2015-12-02T21:00:39Z")
> [@Dingbang](#): > > Sure you can know. I’ll tell you. In either of those alternative scenarios, I would have thought it to be far better writing, much better drama, more believable, and a bold move to actually end that standoff in a way other than the same way they did it in a 1970s cop show. > > If they had gone for the headshot and killed the medic, or prompted the wolf to slit her throat, I’d applaud the writers for going for it. I don’t watch TWD and expect all the important characters to escape unscathed. When characters become too important to die no matter what the situation (talking to you, Glen), a lot of the drama is lost. Agreed, either of those scenarios would be more in keeping with the tone and ideology of the show, as opposed to a bad cliché from bad action movies. > [@Jack\_of\_Words](#): > > I know they’re only actors, and nobody really dies, but I also know we’re not really there, so what we’d do as a viewer from the comfort of our sofa isn’t necessarily what any character would do (or should do) in the script - neither woman felt it was worth putting the medic’s life at immediate risk. Put the guns down, maybe he doesn’t kill her straight away (he’d be a fool to, facing two potentially re-armed opponents, can we agree on that?). Not being dead straight away may not turn into ‘staying alive, with the threat disappearing at speed’ (or being eaten alive), but being dead only turns into walking dead, never into being alive again. > > Abraham probably would have taken the headshot, though. With the RPG… The optimal strategy for the Wolf would be to take the guns, shoot and kill Tara, Eugene, Rosita, Carol, and Morgan, and escape with the doctor and her gear for later treatment of his wound. That would leave everyone who knew he was ever there dead, Alexandria weakened, and no one following him. He’d have to contend with the zombies in the streets, but the same is true of his current plan. Putting their guns _down_, as in lowered or perhaps holstered, I could see. Sliding both handguns over to the murder-cultist - never. Not one human in a million would do that, let alone two, and certainly not Tara and Rosita, who have been established as tough and practical. I only hope the actresses gave the director shit about it on set, and fought to have it changed…perhaps in the shooting script, both women fainted at the sight of the Wolf, or fell and sprained their delicate ankles. > [@Jack of Words](#): > > Women trip, I’ll give you that, but if you think the white male characters haven’t made plenty of bad decisions then you’ve missed a lot of episodes. Not-Rick, non-Daryl white males do, then they die stupid deaths and their ideas are discredited, so as to reinforce the Rick-centric nature of the show. And god help you if you’re a liberal, educated type. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999/100 "2015-12-02T21:55:12Z")
I snipped the rest. > [@Jack\_of\_Words](#): > > ‘a guy’ who was part of the nihilistic murderous gang they just tussled with Don’t you find it out of character for a nihilistic murder-gang guy to take one gun, one hostage and then leave into a horde of zombies? Why didn’t he just do a Metallica, (try his best to)kill em all(he could use the doc as a plot-armor meat shield), stay and wait for the zombies to leave, then loot everything he can carry and try to run off to kill more? Characters in this show live in chronic opposite day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-6-08-start-to-finish-open-spoilers/738999.md?page=6)