# The Walking Dead; 7.08 "Hearts Still Beating" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 11, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481 "2016-12-11T23:41:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/61 "2016-12-13T16:09:54Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I’m surprised that Lucille didn’t bounce off Negan’s head from the force of bullet passing thru it. > > If Rosita was aiming at Negan’s head, and the bat was between Negan’s head and the muzzle of the barrel, and Rosita can hit what she aims at, the bullet should have passed thru the bat and found Negan’s head. In addition to that, the energy transfered from the bullet to the bat, especially at that distance, should have then driven the bat backwards into Negan’s head. A two-fer. > > Well, a fan can dream, can’t he? Maybe it was a shitty home-made bullet that lacked penetrating power anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/62 "2016-12-13T17:18:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > He was lying in the street, his transformation was easy. What was funny to me is the “service” the Saviors pretend to provide to the communities they shake down is protecting them from Walkers and here Negan left someone in the street inside the walls he knew would turn so they don’t even do that. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/63 "2016-12-13T17:28:14Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > What was funny to me is the “service” the Saviors pretend to provide to the communities they shake down is protecting them from Walkers and here Negan left someone in the street inside the walls he knew would turn so they don’t even do that. He did order them to clean it up, but nobody obeyed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/64 "2016-12-13T18:47:45Z")
I wonder if it’ll turn out the Saviors want a bullet maker because their ammo stocks are critically low, to the point where each Savior has only two or three rounds and their guns are mostly a bluff. That and the note that said “You win but you still lose” meant the food on the houseboat was poisoned. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/65 "2016-12-13T19:04:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That and the note that said “You win but you still lose” meant the food on the houseboat was poisoned. I didn’t get that impression at all. I took the note to mean that they may have gotten the supplies, but the world is still overrun with zombies and they’ll probably die soon anyway. ---
**Author:** ![rainy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/66 "2016-12-13T19:05:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That and the note that said “You win but you still lose” meant the food on the houseboat was poisoned. You know when I saw that I thought “IED!!! Get out!” Then when nothing happened, I though maybe it was more of a philosophical statement. But now I am really liking your idea. That would be an awesome development, more so because of the how the writers have handled it. Was the note you thought was just crap really important? Why yes, that’s why we showed it to you again at Alexandria and had it cause a character to get beat up because of it. Wow, so the whole thing, the boat, the sign saying “if you made it this far…” the win/lose note, was all part of a long con by mismatched boot guy?! Hope it turns out that way, that would be awesome. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/67 "2016-12-13T20:46:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Gregory? Is he the guy who is supposedly in charge at Hilltop? If so, good riddance! > > If Negan wanted to keep his enemies closer, he should have taken Rosita with him. His harem must be getting kind of boring by now anyway. Oh yeah, Gregory needs to go, for sure. And Rosita would make a welcome addition to the harem. Definitely wouldn’t be boring! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/68 "2016-12-13T20:46:54Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Maybe it was a shitty home-made bullet that lacked penetrating power anyway? If Rosita had used a revolver, it wouldn’t matter if it was a shitty, home-made cartridge. As an example, .357 Magnum revolver could fire an 800 fps, 38 Special target round, as well as a 1,200 fps, 38 Special +P round, and a 1,600 fps, .357 Magnum varmit round. The speed of the bullet doesn’t affect the action of a wheel gun. Cock the hammer and pull the trigger. Regardless of whether the cartridge fires, another round is ready to fire simply by cocking the hammer and pulling the trigger. Again, and again, and again. However, Rosita used a semi-auto pistol which uses the energy from the fired cartridge to operate it’s action. The distance, and speed, that the slide moves rearward during firing is directly proportional to the velocity of the bullet. Before the Saviour took down Rosita, the pistol’s slide had slid back far enough to lock in the open/empty position. In the real world, that would have required a force within the design limits of the pistols manufacturer. A low powered round wouldn’t have been able to cycle the action. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/69 "2016-12-13T21:07:01Z")
> [@rainy](#): > > You know when I saw that I thought “IED!!! Get out!” (post shortened) That was my first thought also. You guys just triggered a timing device, or lit a fuse. Diving into the walker-infested water seemed like a real good idea at that point. If the food has been poisoned, Negan will punish (shoot all of the men over the age of ten?) the Alexandrians. However, Rick and Company are no longer in (based out of?) Alexandria. They’re busy getting the band back together. There is also the possibility that Negan-ville will soon be distracted by having to deal with a large herd of walkers that weren’t diverted by Fat Tony’s crew. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/70 "2016-12-13T22:54:49Z")
So why were hundreds of “Negans” wandering around in the open at a crossroads? Wouldn’t they be better off in, y’know… a building or something? ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/71 "2016-12-13T22:57:10Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > …357 Magnum revolver could fire an 800 fps, 38 Special target round, as well as a 1,200 fps, 38 Special +P round, and a 1,600 fps, .357 Magnum varmit round… That’s really [yawn] interesting. 🙂 mmm ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/72 "2016-12-14T05:25:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So why were hundreds of “Negans” wandering around in the open at a crossroads? Wouldn’t they be better off in, y’know… a building or something? No, these are free-range, farm-fresh Negans. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/73 "2016-12-14T12:56:27Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > That’s really [yawn] interesting. > > 🙂 > mmm _Well, don’t let it bother you. It seems like it bothers you_. -Maggie Rhee _You gonna eat that_? -Maggie Rhee How do you like them apples? 🙂 Did you know that the case Negan picks up from the ground is stamped _30 MAUSER_. Isn’t that interesting? I wonder how Eugene converted the bottle-necked 30 Mauser brass into something that could be used in a 9mm semi-auto pistol? That Eugene character is a genius. \*7.63×25mm Mauser (.30 Mauser Automatic) - Specifications Parent case 7.65×25mm Borchardt Case type Rimless, bottleneck Bullet diameter 7.86 mm (0.309 in) Neck diameter 8.46 mm (0.333 in) Shoulder diameter 9.60 mm (0.378 in) Base diameter 9.86 mm (0.388 in) Rim diameter 9.98 mm (0.393 in) Case length 25.15 mm (0.990 in) Overall length 34.80 mm (1.370 in)\* > **[7.63×25mm Mauser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.63%C3%9725mm_Mauser)** > > The 7.63×25mm Mauser (.30 Mauser Automatic) round is a bottleneck, rimless, centerfire cartridge, originally developed for the Mauser C96 service pistol. This cartridge headspaces on the shoulder of the case. It later served as the basis for the 7.62mm Tokarev cartridge commonly used in Soviet and Eastern Bloc weapons. > This cartridge was based on the 7.65mm Borchardt of 1893, the most successful semi-automatic pistol cartridge in production at the time, due to its use in the Borchardt C-93 pis... vs \*9×19mm Parabellum - Specifications Parent case 7.65×21mm Parabellum Case type Rimless, tapered Bullet diameter 9.01 mm (0.355 in) Neck diameter 9.65 mm (0.380 in) Base diameter 9.93 mm (0.391 in) Rim diameter 9.96 mm (0.392 in) Rim thickness 1.27 mm (0.050 in) Case length 19.15 mm (0.754 in) Overall length 29.69 mm (1.169 in)\* > **[9×19mm Parabellum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum)** > > The 9×19mm Parabellum (also known as 9mm PARA, 9mm Luger, 9mm NATO or simply 9mm) is a rimless, centerfire, tapered firearms cartridge. > Originally designed by Austrian firearm designer Georg Luger in 1901, it is widely considered the most popular handgun and submachine gun cartridge due to its low cost, adequate stopping power and extensive availability. > Since the cartridge was designed for the Luger semi-automatic pistol, it has been given the designation of 9mm Luger by the Sporting Arms an... ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/74 "2016-12-14T14:03:15Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > No, these are free-range, farm-fresh Negans. PETN musta demanded it, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/75 "2016-12-14T15:10:26Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > _Well, don’t let it bother you. It seems like it bothers you_. > -Maggie Rhee > > _You gonna eat that_? > -Maggie Rhee > > How do you like them apples? 🙂 I have an issue with Lucille’s barbed wire. It looks to be 16 gauge zinc with a spire spike set at an ought-seven pitch with a 0.1 micron tip. Everyone knows this type of wire isn’t found east of Laredo. Lucille should be wrapped in a nickel-based 14 gauge alloy with a non-coring bevel, an ought-ten pitch and a pointier point. And Lucille should be a Henry Aaron model. Atlanta folk don’t give a damn about Reggie Jackson. Takes me right out of the story. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/76 "2016-12-14T15:25:44Z")
Well, let’s talk physics, then, getting back to earlier comments. If a low-end 9mm pistol round strikes a baseball bat at a range of ~30 feet and transfers all its kinetic energy to it, would the bat (loosely held near its base or at highest, its midpoint) move with enough force to strike a man’s face less than 12 inches away at an injurious level? Some of that energy is lost in the bullet embedding in the bat, of course, but baseball bats are designed to take impacts with little vibration or expansion, I thought, plus this particular bat has a barbed-wire cladding. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/77 "2016-12-14T16:27:48Z")
I’m pretty sure the bullet went right through Lucille, leaving a neatly drilled hole in its wake. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/78 "2016-12-14T17:07:16Z")
At the low end you’re talking about 300 ft-lbs of force, 500 ft-lbs at the high end. That’d cause Lucille to flinch a bit, but in a firm grip, it’s not gonna hit Negan in his face, unless he’s pretty close to it. Of course, it hit the bat pretty high up, so the center of gravity would be really off center relative to the pivot point of his wrist, making it extra sensitive to a brute force that high up the bat. Not to mention… aww hell, even my eyes are glazing over… ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/79 "2016-12-14T20:45:35Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > I’m pretty sure the bullet went right through Lucille, leaving a neatly drilled hole in its wake. And you’d be mistaken. According to the video replay, the bullet missed the wire completely, and is seen partially imbedded in the wood. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481/80 "2016-12-14T21:01:19Z")
A .22 long rifle will go through a 1"x4" at ten feet, a .32 ACP will not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-08-hearts-still-beating-open-spoilers/774481.md?page=5)