# The Walking Dead; 7.13 "Bury Me Here" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 12, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040 "2017-03-12T23:26:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rainy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/21 "2017-03-13T17:26:55Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Meanwhile, I don’t normally get that hung up on the details, but I’ve gotta ask: when Zeke’s group first found the open grave, no one recognized Richard’s handwriting on the sign? Good episode, overdue, but good. Those large block letters would be unlike normal handwriting. And there is probably very little need for any writing now unless your job in the kingdom is that of a teacher. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/22 "2017-03-13T21:52:50Z")
Best episode in a while. Although, I don’t care how pissed Morgan was at Richard, it was a piss poor choice to kill off a needed leader when the fight is coming. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/23 "2017-03-13T22:29:49Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Best episode in a while. Although, I don’t care how pissed Morgan was at Richard, it was a piss poor choice to kill off a needed leader when the fight is coming. He was carrying out Richard’s plan, using Richard’s words verbatim (or nearly so). ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/24 "2017-03-13T22:30:47Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Best episode in a while. Although, I don’t care how pissed Morgan was at Richard, it was a piss poor choice to kill off a needed leader when the fight is coming. It’s not a poor choice, it was exactly what was needed to convince the saviors that the kingdom would do anything to keep the peace. Richard was not a good leader, he was just a crazy guy with nothing to live for that wanted to go down fighting. In the end Morgan just gave him what he wanted, he even gave the savior the same exact speech Richard was just about to give. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/25 "2017-03-13T23:01:31Z")
I liked how they worked in the reference to the nail (from which to hang the picture) into an episode whose theme largely was small causes having great effects: for want of a cantaloupe, the kingdom… goes to war. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/26 "2017-03-14T01:16:28Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > He was carrying out Richard’s plan, using Richard’s words verbatim (or nearly so). The guy on the Talking Dead denied that. Perhaps Morgan killed Richard because he got the kid killed. Carol has joined the fight. I never believed I would say this, but G-d help Negan. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/27 "2017-03-14T01:40:06Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The guy on the Talking Dead denied that. Perhaps Morgan killed Richard because he got the kid killed. Scott M. Gimple also un-denied it. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/28 "2017-03-14T21:20:48Z")
Refering to Morgan’s killing of Richard, it was discussed on the Talking Dead - \*Host: Cause when I saw it, it seemed like ah, this is brilliant, because he’s going to, he’s still going to allow Richard to sacrafice himself. He’s basically going to make it meaningful, and make it believable. So it seemed very stratigic. Scott Gimple: And you bring up something that I think is really important, which is, even though I just, in that conversation, I just told you why, and I wrote the episode. You’re still right. The audience is always right. Like, I wouldn’t sit there and say, no no this is what it is. We put out what it is but the audience makes it their own. And the wheels… Unless somebody else says different here because the audience is always right. And the wheels turn in my head one way, but that story works, and it’s probably better. Host: Well it does make it super believable. And it does accomplish what the plan that Richard set forth which is let’s make them trust us. Then we’ll infiltrate them.\* During TWD, Morgan quickly followed up Richard’s killing by telling the Saviors the very story Richard thought would convince the Saviors that the Kingdom could be trusted. And cause the Saviours to lower their guard. Morgan did what Richard had wanted to do, but Richard’s methods were horseshit. Richard didn’t care who, or how many, of the Kingdom were killed as long as he was able to start a fight with the Saviors. Richard sounded more suicidal (and dangerous), than brave. Of course, this whole scenario helped convince the Kingdom to finally join in a war on the Saviors. Which is a good thing. What I found particularly interesting about Gimple’s comment is that he’s admitting that is not how he envisioned/wrote the scene. But because the audience liked the audience’s version of what happened better than they liked Gimple’s version, Gimple was comfortable enough to stay with the audiences version. Maybe that’s why this show is so successful (and choses not to stick too closely to the comic books)? The writers are willing to work with audience expectations. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/29 "2017-03-15T00:06:43Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > What I found particularly interesting about Gimple’s comment is that he’s admitting that is not how he envisioned/wrote the scene. But because the audience liked the audience’s version of what happened better than they liked Gimple’s version, Gimple was comfortable enough to stay with the audiences version. > > Maybe that’s why this show is so successful (and choses not to stick too closely to the comic books)? The writers are willing to work with audience expectations. Someone up thread posted that someone with the show denied that. I think that “The writers are willing to work with audience expectations.” so that they can keep on making money. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/30 "2017-03-15T01:07:13Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Morgan did what Richard had wanted to do, but Richard’s methods were horseshit. Richards whole plan was complete bullshit. He wanted to convince the saviors that everything was cool now but even the head henchman knew they fucked up killing the kid. Things were going to be a lot tenser from now on and the saviors would just be a lot more wary knowing the kingdom was at a boiling point. That’s why Morgan’s idea was much better, it absolves the saviors from Benjamins killing and puts it all on Richard. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/31 "2017-03-15T20:56:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Someone up thread posted that someone with the show denied that. > > I think that “The writers are willing to work with audience expectations.” so that they can keep on making money. 🙂 Besides being a writer, Scott Gimple is currently the Executive Producer/showrunner for The Walking Dead show. On TTD, Gimple admitted he wrote that episode. Who would know better what Gimple intended than Gimple? To quote Scott Gimple: _And you bring up something that I think is really important, which is, even though I just, in that conversation, I just told you why, and I wrote the episode. You’re still right. The audience is always right. Like, I wouldn’t sit there and say, no no this is what it is. We put out what it is but the audience makes it their own_. ---
**Author:** ![Blisters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Blisters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blisters)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/32 "2017-03-16T05:16:11Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I liked how they worked in the reference to the nail (from which to hang the picture) into an episode whose theme largely was small causes having great effects: for want of a cantaloupe, the kingdom… goes to war. Sorry, what do you mean? I think I missed something. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/33 "2017-03-16T11:00:56Z")
> [@Blisters](#): > > Sorry, what do you mean? I think I missed something. Well, it may just be my brain imagining connections, but I just flashed to the proverb ‘[for want of a nail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Want_of_a_Nail)’: > [@](#): > > For want of a nail the shoe was lost. > For want of a shoe the horse was lost. > For want of a horse the rider was lost. > For want of a rider the message was lost. > For want of a message the battle was lost. > For want of a battle the kingdom was lost. > And all for the want of a horseshoe nail. It illustrates how small causes may have large consequences; and in this episode, the small cause was the cantaloupe missing, leading to the deaths of the kid and Richard, and eventually, to the battle between the kingdom and the saviors. Plus, I found the scene in the beginning where the kid gifts Morgan the picture, who then says ‘I got tired staring at that nail’, a bit clunky right upon first seeing it, so I figure maybe that was foreshadowing. So, we have a nail, a kingdom, an impending battle, and a theme of insignificant cause yielding terrible consequences—hence, my association. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/34 "2017-03-17T02:13:42Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Richard didn’t care who, or how many, of the Kingdom were killed as long as he was able to start a fight with the Saviors. Richard sounded more suicidal (and dangerous), than brave. Richard cared. He was quite clearly wracked with guilt that he wasn’t the one killed. He didn’t want to fight the Saviors for the sake of fighting them. He thought the Kingdom got weaker with every tribute while the Saviors got stronger. That eventually the Saviors were strangling the Kingdom and that deaths were inevitable. In fact, Richard explains his motivations. He was afraid of doing nothing and losing everyone he loved again. He was willing to sacrifice himself to save those he loved. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/35 "2017-03-17T02:17:35Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Richard cared. He was quite clearly wracked with guilt that he wasn’t the one killed. He didn’t want to fight the Saviors for the sake of fighting them. He thought the Kingdom got weaker with every tribute while the Saviors got stronger. That eventually the Saviors were strangling the Kingdom and that deaths were inevitable. In fact, Richard explains his motivations. He was afraid of doing nothing and losing everyone he loved again. He was willing to sacrifice himself to save those he loved. After Daryl beat the crap out of him, his first plan was to sacrifice Carol. While he is right that fighting the saviors was necessary he more than showed why he shouldn’t be in charge. His plans were all incredibly stupid and they were lucky they didn’t just get slaughtered. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/36 "2017-03-17T02:32:40Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Richard cared. He was quite clearly wracked with guilt that he wasn’t the one killed. He didn’t want to fight the Saviors for the sake of fighting them. He thought the Kingdom got weaker with every tribute while the Saviors got stronger. That eventually the Saviors were strangling the Kingdom and that deaths were inevitable. In fact, Richard explains his motivations. He was afraid of doing nothing and losing everyone he loved again. He was willing to sacrifice himself to save those he loved. This wasn’t Richard’s first attempt to start a war with the Saviors. Daryl had just recently “convinced” Richard that Richard’s previous plan was somewhat less than acceptable. But it did lead Daryl to Carol. Richard wasn’t a complete boob. He did managed to stockpile, and hide, weapons, flammable liquids, and who knows what else. ---
**Author:** ![Blisters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Blisters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blisters)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040/37 "2017-03-17T02:57:06Z")
Thanks _Half Man Half Wit_, That was a clever line. I have heard that proverb…I just wasn’t picking up what you were putting down. Thanks for explaining. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-7-13-bury-me-here-open-spoilers/782040.md?page=1)