# The Walking Dead; 8.11 "Dead or Alive Or" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 12, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406 "2018-03-12T00:04:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/41 "2018-03-15T02:03:07Z")
Someone _speculated_ that Negan doesn’t know, but I don’t buy it. In this world, everyone would have an extreme interest in figuring out the nature of zombie guts as a potential infectant, and everyone still alive by now would have spent enormous effort avoiding the risk. They didn’t, so we have to assume that they, like us, believe that the only zombie danger comes from a bite. And since we have _Never_ seen anyone on this show die from a zombie in any way other than by being bitten, the characters have good reason to believe that zombie guts by themselves pose no particular risk. Way back in season 1 or 2 it was established that Michonne removd the jaws of her ‘pets’, which rendered them completely harmless. If they were walking sacks of deadly infectious material, that wouldn’t have been the case. No, I suspect that, as usual the writers came up with a ‘cool’ idea and are running with it, without bothering to think about whether or not it really makes sense. That, or they have enough contempt for their audience that they think we won’t notice the problems, or care if we do. I’ll be happy to stsnd corrected if Negan’s big plan fails next week, and Rick says, ’ You idiot! Don’t you know you have to be bitten to die?" I’m not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/42 "2018-03-15T02:13:19Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > They confirmed on Talking Dead afterwards that Gabriel’s infection was from the zombie guts. Maybe it’s just “normal infection from rubbing rotting human corpse in your eyes/mouth/open sores”, not the “zombie death bite” infection, since it appears treatable. But the showrunners specifically said that’s where the infection came from and is one of the reasons people don’t just walk around with zombie-gut shirts. Also because it smells like shit. I can believe normal infection. E-Coli and other bacteria must be everywhere. But as you point out, it didn’t kill Gabriel. It just strangely gave him sort of red tunnel vision. Ok. But if you want a biological weapon, there’s an easy way to do that - just smear feces on your pointy weapons. Humans have been doing that for thousands of years. The Viet Cong used to smear their own feces on punji sticks, and stepping on one pretty much guaranteed a life-threatening infection unless you were treated soon. The problem with doing that in battle, though, is that infections don’t take the enemy out of the battle immediately. It takes hours or days. Also, people DO walk around covered in zombie guts. When would you say Daryl had his last bath? Or Rick? However, I think Negan’s plan has one way in which it could work: If they rained arrows or even small darts down on the people at Hilltop and manage to infect even 10% in the way Gabriel was infected, he’ll force them to expend their effort caring for the wounded, and if he has antibiotics to negotiate with, he might be able to force a surrender without completely destroying everything we thought we knew about the zombie apocalypse, > [@](#): > > Plus how many people can both sides possibly have left at this point? I read that the Saviors had about 300 to start and the combined communities much less. And they’ve been murdering each other wholesale for how many episodes? There is always an infinite supply of redshirts. If they aren’t worried about us counting bullets in the guns with the endless magazines, they aren’t worried about us keeping a running count of people over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/43 "2018-03-15T02:13:35Z")
Yep, if they want me to believe that, I am gonna be pissed. They’ve used the zombie guts on you since Rick and Glen did it in Atlanta, season 1. That ain’t gonna cut it. There is a tiny chance I might believe Negan doesn’t know all the facts, if it’s written cleverly. Eugene knows, that could be a way for him to go on the sly, and help our group. Somehow. ---
**Author:** ![rainy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/44 "2018-03-16T02:40:04Z")
So just to thorough, I went back and watched the scene where Negan gutted Spencer (season 7, episode 8). Negan left before Spencer re-animated. And the only thing Negan said was “somebody better come clean this mess up” or something to that effect. But there wasn’t any “before he turns” type of dialogue. So at least that scene doesn’t betray Negan having knowledge that everyone comes back. The Governor’s people knew it, and we saw that they knew it from the very beginning with them. It could be kind of neat to watch the Saviors go down due to ignorance, but I think it would take far more sophisticated writing to pull it off than has been in evidence is several seasons, so I won’t hold my breath. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/45 "2018-03-16T12:58:45Z")
> [@rainy](#): > > So just to thorough, I went back and watched the scene where Negan gutted Spencer (season 7, episode 8). Negan left before Spencer re-animated. And the only thing Negan said was “somebody better come clean this mess up” or something to that effect. But there wasn’t any “before he turns” type of dialogue. > > So at least that scene doesn’t betray Negan having knowledge that everyone comes back. The Governor’s people knew it, and we saw that they knew it from the very beginning with them. > > It could be kind of neat to watch the Saviors go down due to ignorance, but I think it would take far more sophisticated writing to pull it off than has been in evidence is several seasons, so I won’t hold my breath. I would think that the Saviors have killed so many people that they would know everyone turns when they die. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/46 "2018-03-16T14:52:46Z")
There was a scene last season where the Kingdom was feeding zombie flesh to pigs and then giving those pigs to the Saviors as food. Did that ever go anywhere plot-wise or was it just never brought up again? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/47 "2018-03-16T18:22:32Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > There was a scene last season where the Kingdom was feeding zombie flesh to pigs and then giving those pigs to the Saviors as food. Did that ever go anywhere plot-wise or was it just never brought up again? I always assumed the point of that was just to: 1. Give a middle finger to the Saviors 2. Not waste real resources on pigs they aren’t going to eat anyway. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/48 "2018-03-16T22:08:45Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Yep, if they want me to believe that, I am gonna be pissed. They’ve used the zombie guts on you since Rick and Glen did it in Atlanta, season 1. That ain’t gonna cut it. There is a tiny chance I might believe Negan doesn’t know all the facts, if it’s written cleverly. Eugene knows, that could be a way for him to go on the sly, and help our group. Somehow. And that guy on Fear (Nick?) pretty much has zombie guts as part of his everyday wardrobe. ---
**Author:** ![rainy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/49 "2018-03-18T04:20:18Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > There was a scene last season where the Kingdom was feeding zombie flesh to pigs and then giving those pigs to the Saviors as food. Did that ever go anywhere plot-wise or was it just never brought up again? They really did seem to make a big deal out of that though didn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/50 "2018-03-18T04:33:53Z")
Yep, I have wondered about the pigs too. When our group was at the prison and Rick was tending to the pigs, I recall they got sick and had to be destroyed. Is there a recurring pig theme? Or just a quirk? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/51 "2018-03-18T12:29:01Z")
What is the deal with blue paint? Carl and his little sister make handprints on the deck and folks step in blue paint at the junkyard. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/52 "2018-03-18T12:37:16Z")
I don’t know exactly the deal. Buts it’s gonna get Simon killed. ---
**Author:** ![rainy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/53 "2018-03-18T17:16:37Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Yep, I have wondered about the pigs too. When our group was at the prison and Rick was tending to the pigs, I recall they got sick and had to be destroyed. Is there a recurring pig theme? Or just a quirk? Well pigs get used in a lot of medical testing do to some human/swine similarities. But geez, the pig scene at the prison was what season 3? And then the feeding walkers to pigs was early last season? If this bunch (the writers) has been working a long con for that amount of time, I’ll eat my hat. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/54 "2018-03-18T17:41:56Z")
It’s probably nothing. I like to pretend the new Dr. Dude will get a brilliant plan to test the pigs for immunity and fashion a crude vaccine and cure every one. Eugene can help him. Nice ending, right? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/55 "2018-03-18T18:00:44Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > It’s probably nothing. I like to pretend the new Dr. Dude will get a brilliant plan to test the pigs for immunity and fashion a crude vaccine and cure every one. Eugene can help him. Nice ending, right? I think that is a great idea, but good luck with it. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/56 "2018-03-18T18:06:06Z")
Yep, it seems the writers don’t really care for my input. They havent called yet. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/57 "2018-03-18T19:49:20Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > …I like to pretend the new Dr. Dude will get a brilliant plan to test the pigs for immunity and fashion a crude vaccine and cure every one. … Another problem; if he lives that long. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/58 "2018-03-18T19:55:57Z")
Seems like they have killed off many Dr. Types. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/59 "2018-03-18T20:12:30Z")
People of color and Doctors. This guy is both. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406/60 "2018-03-18T20:36:05Z")
Yea, his days are numbered. Didn’t he have on a red shirt? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-8-11-dead-or-alive-or-open-spoilers/810406.md?page=2)