# The Walmartization of America comes full circle **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757 "2013-02-19T02:01:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/81 "2013-02-19T22:05:24Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > More generally, I’m saying an economy in which labor is treated the same as a chinese widget Has anyone ever wondered why the US had such a massive supply of low end labour that was so easy to exploit? Walmart ends up being much more of a symptom than a disease. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/82 "2013-02-19T22:08:58Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I’m not setting up some kind of lecture here, but your post #67 seemed to suggest that some people are driven by passion, and other, lesser lights are driven by mere profits. I just wished to suggest that the two aren’t as exclusive as you made out. > > As you noted, Tesla used his profits to carry out more experiments, to satisfy his intellectual curiosity. William Randolph Hearst used his to build a castle and stuff it full of works of art. Neither sought profits for their own sake, because no one does that. Money is just colored paper, or numbers on a balance sheet. It’s a medium of exchange. Well, I was just trying to make a point. When it comes down to it, passion trumps profits. That’s why we should follow the same guidelines within society. Public policy should trump private industry. Basic necessities within our society should be maximized. Food, Housing, Healthcare, Environmental Conservation, and Education are the priorities. If we as a people provide those things for ourselves, then what is Walmart? It’s just a store providing us with things we don’t really need, but we can enjoy. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that. But, too often the mindset of this country is that private industry should be the ruler. In reality, that’s the way it is. Corporations are running shit. So when someone says to raise the minimum wage, others say it will cut into profits, and we have a power struggle. Is Walmart doing the country good or bad? It’s a very complex issue, and frankly it’s not one that Walmart should be responsible for. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/83 "2013-02-20T00:16:15Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The comparison to Henry Ford increasing his workers wages on the basis that it would improve the economy by having more people able to buy his product is much closer to what I was going for. I think that meme is overplayed. He raised wages because he was having trouble retaining workers, and it was too expensive to train them. He wasn’t some altruist trying to prime the pump of the economy. But anyone who wants to cite Henry Ford has to cite his inability to change with the times, and his utter failure later in life. Not to mention his Nazi sympathies. He was a youthful genius who turned into a nut later in life. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/84 "2013-02-20T00:33:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I meant in the stock market. If you’re certain they blew their business plan, it would be foolish not to short the stock. But if you’re really not so certain, then maybe you shouldn’t post in a manner that makes you appear you are. No? > > Is there really any evidence that WalMart carries a significant number of products that aren’t exactly the same as what you get elsewhere? My understanding is that WalMart’s business model isn’t even to be the low price retailer. They lure you with a few low price items, maybe even loss leaders, but then figure you’ll buy more stuff while you are there. Exactly. The idea that Walmart sells nothing but cheap junk is total bullshit. I was in one today. The pharmacy aisle is primarily comprised of the exact same brand names you’ll find anywhere else. So are the lightbulbs, the grocery aisles, the toy section, etc. The Crock Pots are the same ones I saw at the cooking store down the street. The Miracle Grow garden soil is the same stuff sold at our local nursery. They do sell cheap plastic pitchers and rakes and the like, but the vast majority of their stock is the same stuff you’ll find at any other retailer. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/85 "2013-02-20T00:37:40Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Has anyone ever wondered why the US had such a massive supply of low end labour that was so easy to exploit? Walmart ends up being much more of a symptom than a disease. … You _do_ know that the United State has some of the highest-cost labor in the world, right? Wal-Mart didn’t exploit anything or anyone. It made an offer people were free to refuse, and the wages it paid to workers have little to do with the value it provides. They’re not heroes, particualrly. But neither are they the “bad guys” (and I’m not saying you said that; just in general). They saw an opportunity and took it. And frankly, if it were a problem, it would have been a problem decades or even centuries ago. This isn’t exactly the first time people complained about low-wage competition. And it’s never been relavant, because wages can never be too low - goods can only be too expensive. And Wal-Mart makes goods very, very inexpensive. Let me just state this to **Senorbeef** and sundry: Whenever your economic views start involving _villains_, you’ve made a mistake along the line. The big problem today isn’t low pay. It’s unemployment and people who simply left the workforce, and that didn’t happen because of a sudden shift towards evil on the part of anybody. Not even big nasty bankers. It took millions of people, bankers and politicians and buearucrats and ordinary joes, to make a massive bubble. Now we’re living with the consequences. The right and left may have disagreements about how to fix said problem, but we shouldn’t disagree over the cause: a lot of people betting on a “sure thing.” Economics tells us there is no such sure thing. Not even T-Bills. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/86 "2013-02-20T02:18:10Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Exactly. The idea that Walmart sells nothing but cheap junk is total bullshit. I was in one today. The pharmacy aisle is primarily comprised of the exact same brand names you’ll find anywhere else. So are the lightbulbs, the grocery aisles, the toy section, etc. The Crock Pots are the same ones I saw at the cooking store down the street. The Miracle Grow garden soil is the same stuff sold at our local nursery. They do sell cheap plastic pitchers and rakes and the like, but the vast majority of their stock is the same stuff you’ll find at any other retailer. Yeah, but how much of this has to do with the Walmart’s influence. If you’re a big brand name, you’re going to do business with Walmart, and you’re going to make products according to Walmart’s desire. What choices do small companies have if all the manufacturers are the same ones that work with Walmart? When you talk about conspicous consumption you have to take into account all of the throw away items – primarily the packaging on everything, plastic bags, etc. I mean look at bottles of water or soda. They could implement a policy stating to bring your own bottle and fill it up at the dispensary. Something like that could drastically cut down on waste, pollution, and protect the environment. But that would affect the bottom line and they won’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/87 "2013-02-20T02:20:53Z")
It really isn’t a problem of the Walmartization of America. It’s the fault of the government and the people for letting them get away with this shit. However, at this point they have caused a lot of damage and it is going to be difficult to undue. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/88 "2013-02-20T02:23:26Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Yeah, but how much of this has to do with the Walmart’s influence. No idea. You tell me. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/89 "2013-02-20T02:43:22Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > But what seems to have happened to me, is this: > > A few decades ago, Walmart leads the charge in a new radical price above all else strategy. They cut their prices by buying the cheapest possible crap, from the cheapest possible source, using their muscle to force destructive cuts on their suppliers which forces them to cut their expenses, **quality** , and worker treatment as hard as possible just to stay competitive. Walmart saves money themselves by treating their workers badly, forcing unpaid overtime, cutting people’s hours just enough to avoid benefits, etc. > . No. Your hypothesis fails and fails hard because that is not what is actually going on in the real world of middle and lower middle class people making retail decisions. Specifically the glib assumption by you (and many others in this thread) that Walmart is offering noticeably lower quality goods for the consumer dollar. The fact is that they are not, other than some limited fresh produce categories and a somewhat limited selection Walmart’s food and retail goods are exactly the same as 99% of the other vendors in the retail universe catering to the middle class and lower middle and underclass class cohorts. This is a very critical point. People in those cohorts are (in general) getting as much or more for their money than with competitive vendors. Walmart offers brand name merchandise at reasonable to bargain prices. As long as that fact remains in place all this arm waving about Walmart being on the decline is abject nonsense. I’m not a huge fan of Walmart’s practices but trying to pretend they don’t offer compelling deals for quality brand name merchandise to people with limited funds and limited time (re their integration) to shop is incorrect. ETA - I see Labrador Deceiver made the same point. ---
**Author:** ![austerity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@austerity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/austerity)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/90 "2013-02-20T03:10:17Z")
I approve of the Walmartization of America. My own anecdotal experience of Walmart: I lived in Reno, NV where there are 6 Super Center Walmarts. I bought all my groceries and clothes for cheap at Walmart Super Centers for less than anything here in California. I now currently live in Los Angles, CA where the there are only 2 Walmarts in the San Fernando Valley. I can’t buy my groceries and clothes at the nearest Walmart because it is too far. So I have to spend much more money on food and clothes at competition stores like Target and Ralphs. I approve of the Walmartization of America. Simple as that. Make stuff cheap and I approve. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/91 "2013-02-20T03:27:09Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Yeah, but how much of this has to do with the Walmart’s influence. Why don’t you tell us, with cites? > [@](#): > > I mean look at bottles of water or soda. They could implement a policy stating to bring your own bottle and fill it up at the dispensary. Something like that could drastically cut down on waste, pollution, and protect the environment. But that would affect the bottom line and they won’t do it. You think WalMart is responsible for Americans’ fetish for bottled water? That is to laugh! ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/92 "2013-02-20T04:17:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think that meme is overplayed. He raised wages because he was having trouble retaining workers, and it was too expensive to train them. He wasn’t some altruist trying to prime the pump of the economy. > > But anyone who wants to cite Henry Ford has to cite his inability to change with the times, and his utter failure later in life. Not to mention his Nazi sympathies. He was a youthful genius who turned into a nut later in life. Also at the time he did not have much competition for mass produced cars so he could afford to build in the higher labour costs into the end price, now imagine is Walcars opened a low cost factory with a highly efficient supply chain, yep wages etc would have to reduce to compete with the new cars. Walmart is about eliminating inefficiency not just low wages. To call Henry Ford an altruist is naive at best. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/93 "2013-02-20T04:25:34Z")
Since I don’t know if I can manage to get this back on track, I may have to give it a try another way in the future with more research and not use walmart as an example since it just seems to confuse people that this is meant to be an anti-Walmart thread. My intent was only to use Walmart as an example of the sort of extreme cost cutting, worker-hostile policies we’ve seen in the entire economy. My aunt was recently fired from her job, at which she was a good, long time worker who fully earned her salary, so that she could be re-hired as a consultant to do the same work for less pay/benefits. No one wants to hire someone a few years from retirement, so they knew she had little choice. Ironically she ended up spending most of her time training her outsource replacements in Mexico (which wasn’t related to the fact that she was going to retire - they’re trying to make the younger people train their own replacements too). I have another friend who works at a grocery store where they’re deliberately cutting their hours down to under 28 a week, because in their contract if they average less than 30 hours a week for a quarter, their pay and benefits can be cut. They’re hoping that either people will quit so they can hire new people at a lesser salary, or if they stay aboard, that they’ll be able to reduce their benefits in accordance with the letter of their contract. So he’s now stuck making less money (due to fewer hours) so that in the future they can jack up his hours again but pay him less. These sorts of policies are hostile towards the average worker in a country, which ultimately reduces the wealth held by the average person. Productivity as a whole is going up with technology gains, but only the investors and owners are benefitting from these increases. Worker compensation is either flat or actually regressing for the first time in US history. When you involve the fact that health care is tied to job security, people’s very health and lives may dictate that they don’t have the freedom to seek the best opportunity for them, they may become trapped, which empowers their employer. Our economy has kept growing because not all of this happened at once, it’s been a gradual process, and because there are real gains in technology and automation that don’t rely on labor. However, that growth has entirely gone to a few people at the top. We’re getting to the point where the average person can no longer afford to be a good consumer in this economy. What good is supply and capital and big businesses with no market and no demand? That, I think, is why we’re in a situation in which corporations are sitting on their biggest cash reserves in history, not reinvesting it. That’s why we’re at a greater point of wealth disparity than at any point since the 20s. The crisis of 2008 wasn’t a recession in the sense that we’re used to. We borrowed to keep up the facade of the strength of our economy, and it eventually caught up with us. This is the new normal. Outsourced jobs aren’t coming back, and they all won’t be replaced by more skilled and better jobs. Companies aren’t going to start showing a concern for their workforce. The average person is not going to regain economic power. During these transitions, the wealth creation of the country was such that the few at the top were able to loot the rest of the system and gather an insane portion of the wealth. But we’re reaching the point where the average person has such little economic power that we can’t afford to buy the products and services to drive the economy. Ultimately, Scrooge McDuck is going to be poorer for all of this, and so will the rest of us. The economy runs best when the average person has something to offer and purchasing power, when money gets passed around and cycled and not just piled up at the top. Without some radical changes, we’re not going to get back to what previously made the US economy great. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/94 "2013-02-20T04:28:43Z")
Of course, there is also the Amazon effect which is where people with an internet connection realized Wal-mart was ripping them off and started ordering Chinese crap straight from Hong Kong. One interesting side note: ebay is also full of cheap electronic parts from China and HK, and I’m talking crazy dirt cheap. If you try to buy something like a K-type thermocouple your search will be flooded with hits from those guys for 1 cent (buy now says $1.39)! But it’s possible to click, “show only North American sellers.” If you do, your search will be flooded by retailers pushing the “made the USA” concept, and they appear to make money selling the same thing for $2. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/95 "2013-02-20T04:33:12Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Without some radical changes, we’re not going to get back to what previously made the US economy great. And what was it that made the US economy great? Would you feel better if there was another world war so everyone else’s factories could be destroyed? ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/96 "2013-02-20T04:46:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why don’t you tell us, with cites? > > You think WalMart is responsible for Americans’ fetish for bottled water? That is to laugh! Right, I have to explain the complexity between Walmart, manufacturers, and other small businesses with cites. But it’s ok for you and others to say that 99% of the stuff Walmart sells are the same things as any other small businesses, and it has nothing to do with Walmart’s influence. It’s quite evident that Walmart has a lot of power. Does that not seem the least bit suspicious? The point about the water bottles was about selling cheap, wasteful crap. A point that some are trying to deny. It’s not about blaming Walmart. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/97 "2013-02-20T04:51:56Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Walmart is about eliminating inefficiency not just low wages. What is efficient about repeatedly creating goods that take up valuable resources and throwing them away? Plastic bags, bottles, elaborate packaging, disposable anything you can think of, etc… This happens on a grand scale. They can set policy to prevent it if they like. [The Story of Stuff](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLBE5QAYXp8) ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/98 "2013-02-20T05:26:01Z")
**SeñorBeef** , you’re correct on a lot of points. However, sometimes I wonder if its actually the best thing for us all in the long term. Everyone is going to learn a hard lesson. Our country and it’s corporations exploit the rest of the world as much as possible. We are using resources at an alarming rate, and at least a depression would slow it down. So how can we feel bad for ourselves and our plight? Should we even wish for a return to the normal economy? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/99 "2013-02-20T05:33:53Z")
[Relevant commentary this week from James Howard Kunstler.](http://kunstler.com/blog/2013/02/scale-implosion.html) (Who is a crank or a visionary, depending on your faith in the potential of “alternative fuels” to functionally substitute for fossil fuels.) > [@](#): > > Despite the obvious damage now visible in the entropic desolation of every American home town, WalMart managed to install itself in the pantheon of American Dream icons, along with apple pie, motherhood, and Coca Cola. In most of the country there is no other place to buy goods (and no other place to get a paycheck, scant and demeaning as it may be). America made itself hostage to bargain shopping and then committed suicide. Here we find another axiom of human affairs at work: people get what they deserve, not what they expect. Life is tragic. > > ``` > The older generations responsible for all that may be done for, but the momentum has now turned in the opposite direction. Though the public hasn't groked it yet, WalMart and its kindred malignant organisms have entered their own yeast-overgrowth death spiral. In a now permanently contracting economy the big box model fails spectacularly. Every element of economic reality is now poised to squash them. Diesel fuel prices are heading well north of $4 again. If they push toward $5 this year you can say goodbye to the "warehouse on wheels" distribution method. (The truckers, who are mostly independent contractors, can say hello to the re-po men come to take possession of their mortgaged rigs.) Global currency wars (competitive devaluations) are about to destroy trade relationships. Say goodbye to the 12,000 mile supply chain from Guangzhou to Hackensack. Say goodbye to the growth financing model in which it becomes necessary to open dozens of new stores every year to keep the credit revolving. > > ``` > > The potential for all sorts of economic hardship is obvious in this burgeoning dynamic. But the coming implosion of big box retail implies tremendous opportunities for young people to make a livelihood in the imperative rebuilding of local economies. At this stage it is probably discouraging for them, because all their life programming has conditioned them to be hostages of giant corporations and so to feel helpless. In a town like the old factory village I live in (population 2500) few of the few remaining young adults might venture to open a retail operation in one of the dozen-odd vacant storefronts on Main Street. The presence of K-Mart, Tractor Supply, and Radio Shack a quarter mile west in the strip mall would seem to mock their dim inklings that something is in the wind. But K-Mart will close over 200 boxes this year, and Radio Shack is committed to shutter around 500 stores. They could be gone in this town well before Santa Claus starts checking his lists. If they go down, opportunities will blossom. There will be no new chain store brands to replace the dying ones. That phase of our history is over. > > ``` > What we're on the brink of is scale implosion. Everything gigantic in American life is about to get smaller or die. Everything that we do to support economic activities at gigantic scale is going to hamper our journey into the new reality. The campaign to sustain the unsustainable, which is the official policy of US leadership, will only produce deeper whirls of entropy. I hope young people recognize this and can marshal their enthusiasm to get to work. It's already happening in the local farming scene; now it needs to happen in a commercial economy that will support local agriculture. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757/100 "2013-02-20T05:43:47Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > What is efficient about repeatedly creating goods that take up valuable resources and throwing them away? Plastic bags, bottles, elaborate packaging, disposable anything you can think of, etc… This happens on a grand scale. They can set policy to prevent it if they like. > > [The Story of Stuff](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLBE5QAYXp8) I am talking about their internal inefficiencies and those of their suppliers, supply chains, wages etc. What you are talking about is efficient use of long term resources used in manufacture etc, this is for government to regulate, the market won’t. On the topic of things like packaging, let’s look at plastic bags. Consumers like them and will continue to use them unless there is legislation to ban them as in now happening around the world. Yeah yeah I know you use a nice string bag but the majority of people don’t. Walmart are a very efficient way to ship mass market goods to end users at a reasonable cost, their economies of scale actually drive down gas usage etc. So not all doom and gloom but as they say economics has no soul. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walmartization-of-america-comes-full-circle/650757.md?page=6)