I don’t think Lee should have been hung after the war. The person to whom the OP was directed went on an on about what a tragedy it was that Arlington was seized and made into a graveyard. I think Lee got off easy, and I also think that if you’re trying to heal a nation after a period of civil war, the winning side must show mercy to the losers. And I think that had Lincoln lived Reconstruction would have been much easier on the South.
Loewen should be read alongside other biased bits. He certainly does cherry pick, but in his defense everyone cherry picks to suit their agenda.
The obvious issue regarding slavery is how many Southern volunteers fought who did not own slaves. There must have been a bit more than just slavery getting them going.
As for whether or not the South had traitors - is it legal to secede? This question has never been settled (to my knowledge). Prior to the Civil War people considered themselves citizens of their home state first, nation second. Once that state voted for secession, it was a new nation.
The Southern officers resigned - that is different from turning traitor. They knew that they could not serve both, and honorably resigned from one to join the other.
Lee (born 1807) was in the class of 1829 and graduated second not first in his class. Grant (born 1822) was in the class of 1843 and graduated twenty-first in a class of thirty-nine.
Hey, both North and South can agree on one thang: we sho nuff can kick us some snooty English arse. Now don’t make us come over there and… uh… get y’all to come back over here so we can kick it again! (And you still owe us a new capitol and White House.)
Just for completeness, the following Civil War Generals graduated first in their class:
Richard Delafield ('18), USA
George Morell ('35), USA
Henry Benham ('37), USA
Isaac Stevens ('39), USA
Paul Hebert ('40), CSA
Zealous Tower ('41), USA
Henry Eustis ('42), USA
William Franklin ('43), USA
William Whiting ('45), CSA
Quincy Gillmore ('49), USA
George Andrews ('51), USA
James McPherson ('53), USA
George Washington Custis Lee ('54), CSA
Ranald Mackenzie ('62), USA
Heh, you said arse 
Yeah yeah yeah, we invented it and the English stole it from us. AND I WANT MY NEW CAPITOL NOW TO REPLACE THE ONE Y’ALL BURNED!!! And this time I want it in Egyptian style and somewhere closer to Alabama. With a White House that’s made of glass and has windmills and other cool stuff next to it. And a member of the royal family to serve as our official hostage.
If the verdict of the battlefield is insufficient, consider what the Supreme Court said: Texas v. White - Wikipedia
Many Southerners did not consider themselves citizens of their state first, and of the U.S. second. Consider Sen. (later Gov., VP and POTUS) Andrew Johnson and Adm. David Farragut, both of Tennessee; Gen. George H. Thomas of Virginia, and Gov. Sam Houston of Texas, to name only a few.
And some years earlier, George Washington of Virginia, as explained in the article linked upthread.
Also worth noting that every Southern state with the exception of South Carolina fielded at least one Union regiment and that the western third of Virginia became West Virginia rather than serve the Confederacy. (My g-g-grandfather was a cavalry private in the 51st Alabama whose last military action {April 1865} was against the Alabama 1st Union Regiment; I’ve wondered if their shared home state made the men hate each other more or less than they would men from the other part of the country, or if that late in the war [after Appomattox Cths. even] they even much gave a damn and just kind of phoned in their shots {it wasn’t a bloody skirmish but it did result in the capture of the 1st Union until they were released upon Johnston’s surrender later that week}).
That was part of the reason for the Ft. Pillow massacre. Forrest’s mostly Tennessee division was facing not only black Union troops, but also the Union 14th Tennesee cavalry.
Now that’s still a major hot potato among those down here educated enough about the war to know about it. Personally I believe the massacre happened- I mean, the alternative is that all those troops just happened to die in battle which isn’t very likely at all- but I’ve heard academics go off about it, insisting there was no massacre.
Was your username chosen with this fine old colloquialism in mind?
Suits ya.
I feel kind of sorry for Zealous Tower. You just know that, whatever his achievements in life, it wasn’t ever going to be good enough. No matter what he managed to accomplish, other people would still be saying: “Well… that’s okay, I guess… I suppose I was just expecting something a little more from a guy named ‘Zealous Tower.’” The only way he could possibly have lived up to the name would have been to tear his shirt off, fight his way through Confederate lines single-handedly, and stab Jeff Davis to death with his rock-hard nipples.
On the other hand, when I get around to writing my epic Civil War novel, I’ll definitely have to include a part for him.* * “Wait-- look there! Silhouetted against the horizon… Thank God! It’s Zealous Tower!”*
*Assuming the historical romance novels haven’t beaten me to the punch already. I mean, come on… “Zealous Tower?”
see! Wilson was right. We were neutral, we supplied both sides.
MANY thanks for the link!
So the Supremes say that you can not leave the Union, period?
Seems dicey to me, personally. You should be allowed to leave. You are allowed to give up your citizenship, so why can’t everyone in a state give up theirs and take the state with them?
OK - that should be another thread.
Thanks for the edjumacashun.
Do I have to say it? I guess so, (sigh)
BAND NAME!
ZEALOUS TOWER is the greatest speed/goth metal band ever!
Not to be over-Zealous, but this link contains a photo of the revered General (bottom row).
Union generals had their deficiencies, but on the whole they sported (sprouted?) some pretty wild facial hair.
Eating ice cream cones must have been messy, though. :dubious:
So, as a European with only a basic understanding of the US Constitution, States vs Federal Government and the Civil War - why would the Southern States succesion be viewed as treason? Isnt each US state basically an automonous unit that voluntarily belong to the Federation? Or is it so that once a piece of land becomes a US State the citizens living there can never withdraw from the Union? If the latter, it seems a bit contradictory to the Spirit of the whole “Land of the Free” thing.
I’ve read the thread so far, but it seems to be a lot of back and forth and I’m still confused on who where in the wrong and why in the case of the Civil War. (Leaving the moral debate about Slavery out of it, which clearly put the South in the wrong)
States have only limited sovereignty.
The Constitution doesn’t describe how a state can leave the union. Best guess, it would take an Act of Congress and the approval by the state’s legislature, similar to how a state is admitted.
Dang, but that Civil War generals’ website has some fine pictures of sportin’ dudes.
Check out Gen. Joseph Gilbert (“I have but one facial expression to give for my country”) Totten. 