# The War on Christmas Spinoff **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 23, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441 "2016-12-23T14:32:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/21 "2016-12-23T20:56:13Z")
Provide a cite in the linked article that supports your claim that religions other than Humanism are being attacked. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/22 "2016-12-23T20:57:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What are you talking about? He said “atheists”, not “Humanists”. He should have said “Humanists” not atheists, since that is what the ideology of the groups in question is. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/23 "2016-12-23T20:58:56Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Provide a cite in the linked article that supports your claim that religions other than Humanism are being attacked. [http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/\_new/121119-atheist-damon-vix-hmed-630a.jpg](http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/121119-atheist-damon-vix-hmed-630a.jpg) I mean he could have put up a sign about why Humanism is a good alternative, or how you can “be good without God” or all that, but decided just to spend his time attacking other religions. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/24 "2016-12-23T21:02:17Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > [http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/\_new/121119-atheist-damon-vix-hmed-630a.jpg](http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/121119-atheist-damon-vix-hmed-630a.jpg) > > I mean he could have put up a sign about why Humanism is a good alternative, or how you can “be good without God” or all that, but decided just to spend his time attacking other religions. Doesn’t that make most religious signage attacks on atheism? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/25 "2016-12-23T21:22:03Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > No, it isn’t. The concept behind the “war on Christmas” was brought up by a bunch of FOX News busibodies who saw attacks on the institution of Christmas in the USA. Attacks which did not exist. Actually, the war against Christmas stretches back at least to the [Puritans](http://www.historytoday.com/chris-durston/puritan-war-christmas). And persists to the present day: > **[War on Christmas: Is the festival under attack?](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16273917)** > > Dozens of US congressmen have pledged to protect Christmas from its multicultural-minded enemies, but is the West's foremost public holiday really under attack in the US - or anywhere else? > [@BBC](#): > > “In recent years, there has been an effort by some to ban any reference to Christmas by the federal government or our elected officials,” Arkansas Democratic Congressman Mike Ross wrote to supporters on Monday. However, it’s a mountain being made out of a molehill: > [@BBC](#): > > Some of the stories about a “war on Christmas” have turned out to be more complicated than initially thought. One newspaper printed a correction last month after wrongly reporting that Christmas had been renamed “Winterval” in parts of the UK. There was an instance in 1998 when Birmingham City Council was criticised by church leaders for calling a series of religious and secular events “Winterval”, but it said Christmas still played a part within that programme of events. > > … > > But if anyone is fighting against Christmas, they seem to be losing the battle. Indeed, polls indicate the vast majority of Americans celebrate the holiday, with most incorporating religious elements into the observance. The molehill exists; the mountain does not. And Fox aren’t the cause. ---
**Author:** ![jacobson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85f322/32.png) [@jacobson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacobson)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/26 "2016-12-23T22:18:38Z")
When I hear people who worry about The War On Christmass it causes me to wonder, Why wasn’t Christmas celebrated for thousands of years? The early Christians didn’t celebrate the birth of Jesus, and Christianity seemed to grow inspite of being in the minority for hundreds of years, and until Constantine’s time it was very divided there then was the Roman and Orthodox churches that united 'till the year 700 when they split over the Trinity. People knew Christians in the early days because of their actions, now few Christians follow the main (what seems to me to be Love your enemy, love oneanother , Don’t judge, return evil with good). Sitting in a garage doesn’t make one a car ,nor does sitting in a church make one a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/27 "2016-12-23T22:49:25Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Actually, the war against Christmas stretches back at least to the [Puritans](http://www.historytoday.com/chris-durston/puritan-war-christmas). > > And persists to the present day: > > [War on Christmas: Is the festival under attack? - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16273917) > > However, it’s a mountain being made out of a molehill: > > The molehill exists; the mountain does not. And Fox aren’t the cause. Well if you can point out the number of radical Puritan Christians who’ve filed anti-Christmas legal actions in recent times, that’d be helpful, as opposed to just some random nutcase on the internet. Not sure how what the Purtains did 100s of years ago is any more relevant than something Josef Stalin did. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/28 "2016-12-24T00:01:02Z")
Happy Holidays, everyone! (And remember, Persephone is the reason for the season.) ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/29 "2016-12-24T00:24:38Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Happy Holidays, everyone! > > (And remember, Persephone is the reason for the season.) And a merry Kwanza for you. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/30 "2016-12-24T00:30:29Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > His schtick is conflating all unbelievers under the “Humanist” label in order to assert that we’re actually a church. Or a cult. Or something. No, not all atheists are humanists, but all secular humanists are atheists. Most of the atheist organizations in question are secular Humanists. Atheism is just the lack of belief, Humanism is their belief. I already posted the link to Secular [Humanism.org](http://Humanism.org) showing the ‘statement of principles’. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/31 "2016-12-24T00:33:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Doesn’t that make most religious signage attacks on atheism? If “Christ is love” or something like that = attacking atheism, then that’s a pretty silly idea. Unless you’re going to claim that teaching evolution = “attacking Christians” just because some creationist got offended. Fact is the guy had every legal right to put up pro-atheist or Humanist signs, he wasn’t content with that, he doesn’t want any religious displays existing at all even if all religions are allowed. If you can point out a case of a city or school saying Christians can put up a nativity scene, but Jews can’t put up a Menorah, or Muslims can’t put up a worship display, feel free to point it out. If the dude wants to put up a monument to Darwin or whatever, no one’s stopping him. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/32 "2016-12-24T00:46:14Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > No, not all atheists are humanists, but all secular humanists are atheists. . . . Not quite. Many are agnostics. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/33 "2016-12-24T00:47:09Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Not quite. Many are agnostics. Well if you use atheism in the “soft atheism” sense, meaning someone who just “lacks belief in a god” then it includes agnostics. Versus the “strong atheism” sense (e.x. “I know for a fact there is no god”). ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/34 "2016-12-24T05:19:42Z")
My position is that the December Holiday Season incorporates many traditions and forms of expression, the majority of which are non-christian in origin. Things like evergreens and gift-giving and outdoor lights, etc. Indeed, how often do you hear Santa Claus talk about Jesus? So I just don’t see how it kills some people for government-run venues to limit themselves to non-religious Holiday expression. There is plenty of room for the Christian aspects of Christmas to be displayed outside homes and churches (businesses have every right to be religious but most choose not to). This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Let’s not bicker and argue… ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441/35 "2016-12-24T07:46:28Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > No, not all atheists are humanists, but all secular humanists are atheists. > > Most of the atheist organizations in question are secular Humanists. > > Atheism is just the lack of belief, Humanism is their belief. > > I already posted the link to Secular [Humanism.org](http://Humanism.org) showing the ‘statement of principles’. Someone knows their stuff. Kudos! I would not expect someone arguing about the “war on Christmas” to have such a good understanding of atheism and humanism. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-christmas-spinoff/775441.md?page=1)