The “war on drugs” is one of America’s stupidest battles. I can take 9,000 prescription pills a day with no legal ramifications, but smoke one joint a year and be arrested. That is fucking ridiculous.
Treat all drugs like the most dangerous alcohol–legal to drug yourself into the gutter, but do not do when you will endanger someone else.
[QUOTE=Shakester]
Let us imagine for a moment that your national government had enough moral courage to admit that the war on drugs has been a catastrophic failure.
[/QUOTE]
My imagination fails here. The previous UK government (Labour) asked for scientific advice on drug policy, didn’t like what it heard and ignored it. They re-criminalised dope. The current Tory* government plans to actually change the law to exclude scientists when deciding policy.
Sorry Shakey I don’t think they’re going to listen to us.
Whatever, I’ll go for 3, not to be a spoilsport.
*yeah, well.
I know exactly what you mean. I have great difficulty imagining any national gov’t having the balls to admit that prohibition does not work. I’m Australian and I’d bet you both of my testicles that Australia isn’t going to be the first “western” country to do it. Interestingly, some local gov’ts are taking a more realistic approach, as some people have mentioned.
One thing that I sort-of expected was that not one person wants to leave things as they are. This (the “drug war”) is something that, as far as I can see, both sides of the political spectrum would like to see finished. If we can agree on nothing else, at least we all seem to agree agree with my first point: the war on drugs has been a catastrophic failure.
I didn’t want to get into picking and choosing. Also, I’ve personally known people who have flipped out on Cannabis. It’s relatively harmless for some, but it can have a terrible effect on others. That’s not just scare stories from The Man, I’ve seen it up close.
On the other hand, we’ve all seen ugly scary drunks up close, too. Too much bourbon can make certain people just as unpleasant and potentially dangerous as any illegal drug user. The only thing that makes it acceptable is that it’s legal, and that drunks aren’t likely to mug you or burgle your house to support their booze habit.
How would you describe our success to date with this policy? If you’re like me and feel that it hasn’t gone so well, why would you want to continue this policy?
Even the authorities concede it’s not going well. Here in Michigan the meth epidemic appears to be out of control - despite meth’s legal status - and nowthey’re simply warning people to watch their asses lest they accidentally incur the wrath of meth addicts.
Do you really believe many more people will start doing meth/crack/dogshit if it’s legalized?
Wouldn’t it be better to take these people, put them in supervised housing, and give them all the meth/crack/dogshit they want until they decide they’re ready for rehab? That means they’re not out robbing people (or turning tricks) to pay for their habit (since their drug of choice is provided free of charge), and (in the case of meth) they’re not running some rickety, explosive meth lab that endangers entire neighbrhoods.
Decriminalize possession and use of pretty much everything; keep sale of drugs illegal, with penalties accruing to the seller but not the buyer.
See how that works for awhile before considering more changes. If everybody can get dope if they want it, then everything’s working fine and there’s no need to change the laws to allow commercialization of dope and/or hard drugs.
You’re not the only one to have expressed this opinion but I’ll take your post.
Why would you punish the dealers? You saying “If everybody can get their dope if they want it, then everytyhing’s working fine (…)” I take to mean that you don’t have any problems with people taking drugs. I don’t see why dealers should be punished. If drugs are ok, supplying them should be as well. Unless we’re talking about self-production, the steps of production, distribution and consumption require each other. If smoking pot is fine, making it possible to smoke pot by selling it ought to be as well.
It’s rational, efficient, smart, and also offends the sensibilities of people who like to use the word ‘moral’ to describe themselves.
I’d say that’s 4 for 4, but unfortunately that group wields a great deal of power.
…you forgot a targeted legalization policy as is being proposed right now. No Cite. The way I understand it is that “drugs” would be re-evaluated by class and depending on which class they are in they would legalize\decriminalize as set by the class. So Alcohol is a drug, as is nicotine, they would be classed according to whatever the Gov’t FDA says.
Marijuana [in my opinion] make it just like alcohol [i.e. 21 to purchase, same rules apply for DUI]
Cocaine, Heroine, crack, Meth - doubt they will regulate these at all.
Mushrooms, LSD - same, doubt they will regulate these.
So you forgot to mention a tiered approach to legalization.
p.s. Here in Colorado marijuana is legal in two municipalities - Breckenridge and Nederland - in the two years since it became fully legal, crime rates fell exponentially.
My wife [non-pot smoker] said to me last night that she could smell pot on the waiter at dinner, and some chick at the check out counter at the store next to the restaurant. She mentioned, "ya know, several years ago that would be appalling and someone would say something, maybe even call the police - now it’s like … nothing.
Which is true, here in Boulder, there is a dispensary on every corner and is readily accepted just about everywhere. At the fireworks people were smoking right in front of 10,000 other Boulderites and cops and no one said a word.
Another example of how marijuana use leads to the use of harder drugs.
Regards,
Shodan
PS - Option 4 - legalize the soft drugs, keep stuff like cocaine and opiates illegal.
I was in active addiction for 12 years. I used every day.
It’s legal status never was a consideration. It never stopped me from using. Occasionally, it made me pay more money.
I’ve been clean for 23 years.
In 35 years, I have never met one person who told me he would start using anything if it became legal.
The war on drugs has driven up the price and created criminal empires, but it has not touched demand at all. I think all drugs should 100% legal. If that happens, I still will not use them.
Would you also say that marijuana led him to computer piracy?
Barring further elaboration from purplehorseshoe, I’d say it was the stint in jail with hardcore criminals that introduced him to the harder drugs. IOW, it was the illegality of pot - not the pot itself - that led him down that path. Had pot been legal, this kid wouldn’t have landed in jail and might have been just fine in the long run.
I also don’t understand the people drawing lines between “hard” and “soft” drugs. If something is illegal, then the people selling and the people buying have already crossed some line, and there is a lot less holding them back from shooting rival dealers and/or hitting granny over the head to get the cash to buy their next fix (presumably at a higher price then a legalized product would sell for).
Plus, of course, you end up with the arguments over what is hard vs. soft (powder cocaine vs crack, for instance).
I have absolutely no use for people who want to get high.
Legalize it, make it an automatic life-in-prison offense to commit any crime while high or while trying to get high, and tax the living hell out of the drugs themselves.
Short term? Absolutely, yes. It seems delusional not to think otherwise.
This is not, of course, to say that you can’t prepare for that, or that it’s not worth doing anyway. But to say it won’t ever take an upswing, maybe even a significant one, is silly, IMO.
If you listen to music/watch tv or movies/read books, it’s likely that you have some use for people who enjoy intoxication in various forms. And when you suggest life in prison for people who commit crime on legal drugs, would that include alcohol? Cold meds?
I’ll grant you that. But I’d rather live in a world where people who don’t get high have a shot at entertaining me.
To the extent that their intoxicating effect can be measured (i.e., blood alcohol level), yes, actually. My parallel here is that it’s legal to drive a car, but if you use a car to, for instance, kill someone, that makes it in some jurisdictions a different crime.
That’s pretty much how I feel. If you can grow it, be my guest. Of course, I’m really good with plants. 
I would include opium poppies, too. I understand that it tastes like shit, but growing and then brewing your own opium tea isn’t supposed to be as bad as injecting heroin. Personally, heroin scares me, so I’d probably grow the flowers but be too chicken to ever try them.
Processing natural drugs into hard drugs (heroin, crack, etc.) should still be illegal. I also think processing tobacco into cigarettes for commercial sale should also be illegal.