# The War on Fact-Checkers: New GOP Strategy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 31, 2012, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246 "2012-08-31T12:38:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/81 "2012-09-06T12:47:56Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Why would you think a Republican said “We will not…” when the quote was “They will not…?” The quote was ‘we will not’. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/82 "2012-09-06T12:55:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > When spoken, it sounds like he’s still quoting. Now if he’d said, “They will not let the truth get in the way”, it would be easy to understand. > > The biggest Big Lie of this election campaign has been all the lying about lying. Liberals have a serious problem with that. The implication that liberals lie more than conservatives is itself in need of a fact check. And people have done it. I’m not even going to bore you by going and finding the results. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/83 "2012-09-06T12:58:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Obama campaign is currently running blatantly false Medicare ads The Romney campaign is running ads with lies about Medicare too. > [@](#): > > that reference the first version of the Ryan plan rather than Romney’s current plan, or even Ryan’s current plan. So? Ryan once supported something, which the GOP House adopted. Has he completely changed his mind about that? Will he never ever try it again? It’s a legitimate point. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/84 "2012-09-06T13:27:45Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This has probably been said already, but this strategy is not new. It’s the same as the charge of liberal media bias. Since that effort to work the refs was successful, why not try it again. > > I mean think about how the concept of fact-checkers even came about? Shouldn’t fact checking be an essential defining element of all the media, rather than being farmed out to a few boutiques? The bulk of the media cannot be fact checkers because they would be accused of being biased against conservatives. Why shouldn’t the conservatives start attacking the fact checkers now? This is a nutshell. The conservatives have been so successful in playing the refs and moving the goalposts that they naturally assume they can do as they want with the Ball of Truth, and any media that get in their way will be relentlessly attacked. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/85 "2012-09-06T13:38:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I don’t fib on the boards for two very important reasons, first, I am the paragon and embodiment of truth and candor, and second, because I’d never get away with it. > > The SDMB is a semi-organic machine for fact-checking. If you get away with a bullshit cite, its only because nobody gives a rat’s about what you are proving with it. Try to sneak in some shaky climate-denier bullshit, and **Gigo** will show you the true meaning of “data dump”, like getting shit on by a brontosaurus. Fact check: brontasaurs are extinct, and therefore cannot shit. Stop making misleading statements! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/86 "2012-09-06T14:18:11Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > The implication that liberals lie more than conservatives is itself in need of a fact check. > > And people have done it. I’m not even going to bore you by going and finding the results. They don’t lie more, what’s different is that they make false accusations of dishonesty. Routinely. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/87 "2012-09-06T14:19:47Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > The Romney campaign is running ads with lies about Medicare too. The facts in the Romney Medicare ads are debateable, not false. > [@](#): > > So? Ryan once supported something, which the GOP House adopted. Has he completely changed his mind about that? Will he never ever try it again? > > It’s a legitimate point. The commercial claims that is Romney’s plan, which it’s never been. It’s not even Ryan’s plan anymore. Ryan heard the criticisms of it and changed it. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/88 "2012-09-06T14:29:44Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I mean think about how the concept of fact-checkers even came about? Shouldn’t fact checking be an essential defining element of all the media, rather than being farmed out to a few boutiques? That’s been said a lot recently (including Jon Stuart), but it misses the point. Fact checkers are a valuable and necessary counter to advertisements which spout lies and wildly misleading spin. There’s nothing inherent in journalism to do a story on the content of a super-PAC’s latest billion dollar ad buy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/89 "2012-09-06T14:31:17Z")
I love fact checkers, but the ratings have become gimmicky. Politifact will say “Half true”, but the statement is actually true, they just don’t like it for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/90 "2012-09-06T14:43:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …The commercial claims that is Romney’s plan, which it’s never been. It’s not even Ryan’s plan anymore. Ryan heard the criticisms of it and changed it. Wait, what? He “heard the criticisms and changed it.”? He never considered them before? This was all news to him? Sounds a bit like the old joke about Lincoln sobering up after a three day bender and saying “I freed the _what_?” Did he show the plan to anybody before he sent it onto the House? Nobody in the House saw anything wrong with it, so they passed it, and then they found out what was in it? Huh? Are you telling us that he literally did not know what the effect of his plan would be until somebody told him? My confidence in him is waning a bit, how about yours? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/91 "2012-09-06T14:51:24Z")
Political criticisms. The original plan cost the GOP a special house election and there were recriminations against Ryan. Ryan got with Ron Wyden and revised the plan to make it politically palatable. Ryan responded to the voters. You know, what Democrats didn’t do when designing their health care plan. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/92 "2012-09-06T14:55:29Z")
True, if the Democrats had based ACA on voter wishes rather than a naive expectation of GOP good faith, we’d have a single-payer system, or at least a robust public option. Do please note that every single element of ACA polls strongly in favor, it’s only when the “Obamacare” label gets attached that the Pavlovian slobbering starts. And do also please note that, even so, polls that include the “Doesn’t go far enough” option show a total for that one and “About right” that strongly exceed the “Repeal” option. So, just to ask again, since you’ve had time to research the issue by now: What does the GOP plan to replace it with, once they’ve repealed it all, including all the popular elements, which is all of them? If you’d rather not be reminded, we’ll understand, of course. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/93 "2012-09-06T15:03:47Z")
The polls don’t ask about every single element of ACA. The polls ask about tiny parts of it. If voters favor those parts but oppose the overall bill, you’d think a creative pollster would ask specifically what voters hate about it, but that would be right-wing bias I guess. Voters don’t like single payer, they like their current insurance. Screw with that, and that’s the real third rail of politics. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/94 "2012-09-06T15:11:07Z")
Ah, the power of fantasy … Could you please at least acknowledge that your guys do not and never did intend to replace ACA with anything, simply repeal it? That the “replace” part was and remains a lie? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/95 "2012-09-06T15:24:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I love fact checkers, but the ratings have become gimmicky. Politifact will say “Half true”, but the statement is actually true, they just don’t like it for some reason. That is my problem with the process. Any interjection of opinion makes it something other than fact checking. Again, my personal preference. If people like this system, it’s there, free speech, market forces, etc. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/96 "2012-09-06T15:25:20Z")
No, no, **Elvish**! That isn’t a lie, it just hasn’t happened yet! Whatsamatta you, you don’t trust them? They gave us a note, an “IOU a plan”, and they will produce that plan just as soon as they are assured of our continuing confidence and support! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/97 "2012-09-06T15:47:47Z")
I’m more of the view that the promises by the founder of Romneycare to repeal Obamacare are the key lies at present, since “replace” has disappeared from recent GOP rhetoric. Still would be nice to see some acknowledgment, though. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/98 "2012-09-06T15:55:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Ah, the power of fantasy … > > Could you please at least acknowledge that your guys do not and never did intend to replace ACA with anything, simply repeal it? That the “replace” part was and remains a lie? That’s impossible to know until they do it. I would not call you a liar for saying they won’t replace it. That’s a fair prediction to make. Just as it’s fair to predict that Obama’s administrative changes to welfare will result in the gutting of reform. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/99 "2012-09-06T16:01:58Z")
Considering that it’s been a period of years now, and the promises to replace it with a, what did you call it, “sensible and moderate” or something like that alternative instead have never been followed up by a damn thing, and that even “replace” has left their rhetoric, isn’t it pretty damn foolish to hold out to us the possibility they might do it, as what you just did? :dubious: IOW **elucidator** ’s mockery is, as usual, well-placed. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246/100 "2012-09-06T16:05:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s impossible to know until they do it. I would not call you a liar for saying they won’t replace it. That’s a fair prediction to make. Just as it’s fair to predict that Obama’s administrative changes to welfare will result in the gutting of reform. I’ll just say both are predictions, and predictions are unrelated to the subject of fact checking, unless prediction results are presented as facts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-fact-checkers-new-gop-strategy/633246.md?page=6)