# The War on Guns **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101 "2013-09-17T22:13:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/1 "2013-09-17T22:13:34Z")
Thesis: **The media’s bias (and ignorance) is most clearly displayed when guns are the topic**. Supporting evidence: 1. [http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/ar-15-gun-debate/?hpt=hp\_t1](http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/ar-15-gun-debate/?hpt=hp_t1) which is, as near as I can tell, a hit piece on AR-15’s, by a supposedly objective news source. Rather than a short “we were wrong, it wasn’t an AR-15” retraction (which was covered by the third paragraph - but interestingly enough, not the first or second), this rambling piece does its best to demonize that particular type of firearm: > [@](#): > > gunman Aaron Alexis unleashed a barrage of bullets using an AR-15 … Authorities believed the AR-15 was used for most of the shooting … assault weapons like the AR-15 … an AR-15 was used in the shootings … the massacre pushed the AR-15 back into the gun-control debate … the semi-automatic cousin of the military-issue M4 assault rifle … “Almost every mass shooting involves an AR-15 assault rifle,” Staff Sgt. Alonzo Lunsford told CNN’s Piers Morgan Monday night. … “It’s the preferred mass shooter’s weapon of choice,” added Lunsford … “But I don’t see a logical reason why any civilian needs to have one of these killing machines.” … The AR-15 is an efficient killing machine … It’s easy to get an AR-15. They can be purchased online or in a gun store. I suspect if 100 average CNN viewers were to read this piece, 80%-90% would come away with the mistaken belief that the Navy Yard shooting involved an AR-15 (and that AR-15’s are horrible devices), which seems to me to be the intent of the authors. And why characterize the two sides like this: > [@](#): > > “Advocates for tighter gun laws” vs “pro-gun activist” 1. [http://www.guns.com/2013/03/27/top-ten-examples-of-media-bias-against-gun-owners-video/](http://www.guns.com/2013/03/27/top-ten-examples-of-media-bias-against-gun-owners-video/) 2. [http://www.amazon.com/The-Bias-Against-Guns-Everything/dp/0895261146](http://www.amazon.com/The-Bias-Against-Guns-Everything/dp/0895261146) and [http://gunowners.org/sk0301.htm](http://gunowners.org/sk0301.htm) P.S.: I know, I know, there are lots of gun threads already. This one is intended to focus on the negative treatment of guns by the media (and maybe politicians, political organizations, professional medical societies, and others). ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/2 "2013-09-17T23:26:55Z")
Technically, advocating the laying down of arms is a peace movement, not a war. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/3 "2013-09-17T23:29:23Z")
I trained with and used the original AR-15, we called it an M-16 at the time. It’s a tool designed for killing humans at close range and no other purpose, it’s not a hunting weapon. Doesn’t meant that anybody used one in this recent mess. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/4 "2013-09-17T23:36:59Z")
The media will always get it wrong, it will always be sensationalized, and none of it will matter. The only thing that matters is the votes in Congress. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/5 "2013-09-17T23:38:16Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > I trained with and used the original AR-15, we called it an M-16 at the time. > It’s a tool designed for killing humans at close range and no other purpose, it’s not a hunting weapon. Correction: The AR-15 is absolutely a hunting firearm (it is _not_ a weapon), and is a popular firearm for hunters across the United States, favored for its reliable design and accuracy over range. It’s also a pretty common firearm all over the world and legal in just about any country which permits almost any level of firearm ownership. The M-16 is a different device entirely, and it _is_ a weapon. It is designed for one purpose: the kill human beings. The AR-15 is not, and is no better than most hunting rifles for that purpose. If you want to know why I am an obnoxious stickler on that point, it’s because my father drilled that into my head while I was a child. Weapons are for killing; firearms are for sport. And I don’t care what the dictionary says because my old man would turn over in his grave, get out of it, and kick my arse down the street if I didn’t proclaim it to the world. Then again, he taught hunter education for the better part of two decades. Edit: Also, if we have a war on guns, the smart money is on the guns. After all, they’ve got all the guns. Unless the NRA was right and guns don’t kill people… ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/6 "2013-09-17T23:50:34Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > . . . The AR-15 is absolutely a hunting firearm (it is _not_ a weapon) . . . How is it not a weapon? ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/7 "2013-09-17T23:51:04Z")
If it shoots a tiny fast bullet out of the same short barrel as an M16 it’s going to vaporize a rabbit and be too small for deer. I don’t know what you could plausibly hunt with an AR-15. Boar, maybe? Goats? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/8 "2013-09-18T00:00:30Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > How is it not a weapon? I’m not saying it’s the dictionary definition. I am saying my father drilled this into me. Police officers have weapons. Soldiers have weapons. You go hunting with a _firearm_. Call it a philosophical statement on how you become and stay mentally prepared. > [@](#): > > If it shoots a tiny fast bullet out of the same short barrel as an M16 it’s going to vaporize a rabbit and be too small for deer. > I don’t know what you could plausibly hunt with an AR-15. Boar, maybe? Goats? …Say what? The AR-15 is quite popular with deer hunters. Coyote- and boar-hunters also like it. Sure, it’s a bit much for rabbit, but there’s much bigger game out there than rabbit and people use shotguns on hares all the time. It’s also a _very_ popular sport-shooting firearm. I don’t have statistics handy, but IIRC it’s in the top-ten sport rifles worldwide. 5.56 isn’t a massive round for shooting game. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/9 "2013-09-18T00:11:43Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > If it shoots a tiny fast bullet out of the same short barrel as an M16 it’s going to vaporize a rabbit and be too small for deer. > I don’t know what you could plausibly hunt with an AR-15. Boar, maybe? Goats? Anything that you would hunt with any other .223 Remington-caliber rifle. It’s a very common caliber. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/10 "2013-09-18T00:36:15Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Edit: Also, if we have a war on guns … > [@Aquadementia](#): > > Technically, advocating the laying down of arms is a peace movement, not a war. “War on \_\_\_\_\_” in the same sense that “war on women” was popularized earlier this year: favoring / supporting / advocating for policies that are opposed to \_\_\_\_\_. I’m not suggesting there’s an actual shooting war, and almost no one advocates for actual physical violence and harm against the average gun owner. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/11 "2013-09-18T00:55:01Z")
Hey look, here’s an AR-15 for hunting: [Cite](http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-r-15/model-r-15.aspx) :eek: And [some more](http://ar15hunter.com/) (admittedly, chambered in an assortment of calibers) And here’s a (somewhat technical) discussion on how the AR platform is just fine for hunting deer: [Cite](http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=4501) ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/12 "2013-09-18T00:57:16Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > I trained with and used the original AR-15, we called it an M-16 at the time. > It’s a tool designed for killing humans at close range and no other purpose, _ **it’s not a hunting weapon.** _ [You.](http://suite101.com/a/hunting-with-ar15-type-rifles-a70101) [Are.](http://www.alloutdoor.com/2013/06/12/hunting-ar-15/) [Wrong.](http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=4501) Now, will you admit it, and that you were Posting While Ignorant (a.k.a. talking out you ass)? Or are you just another lying weasel of a gun-control nut? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/13 "2013-09-18T01:19:40Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Or are you just another lying weasel of a gun-control nut? I won’t give you a warning because this is a question, but do not do this again. You can’t call people liars or nuts in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/14 "2013-09-18T01:20:31Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > [You.](http://suite101.com/a/hunting-with-ar15-type-rifles-a70101) > > [Are.](http://www.alloutdoor.com/2013/06/12/hunting-ar-15/) > > [Wrong.](http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=4501) > > Now, will you admit it, and that you were Posting While Ignorant (a.k.a. talking out you ass)? > > Or are you just another lying weasel of a gun-control nut? \ Bit too much there, ExTank. Even if emotions run high, let’s keep it civil in GD. We have a perfectly good forum for you to make such statements. And heck, then it becomes Miller’s and Gfactor’s problem. Not mine. No warning. \ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/15 "2013-09-18T01:31:28Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Anything that you would hunt with any other .223 Remington-caliber rifle. It’s a very common caliber. I’ve gone after deer with an AR-15 chambered for .308 Winchester. It’s hard to imagine anyone claiming that the .308 Winchester is unsuitable for deer. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/16 "2013-09-18T01:32:44Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > I trained with and used the original AR-15, we called it an M-16 at the time. > It’s a tool designed for killing humans at close range and no other purpose, it’s not a hunting weapon. Factually incorrect. As noted in detail above. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/17 "2013-09-18T01:58:40Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > If it shoots a tiny fast bullet out of the same short barrel as an M16 it’s going to vaporize a rabbit and be too small for deer. > I don’t know what you could plausibly hunt with an AR-15. Boar, maybe? Goats? I dropped a cow elk with an AR rifle. 610 pounds. One shot in the heart. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/18 "2013-09-18T02:13:56Z")
BTW, I consider the whole ‘An AR-15 can’t be used for hunting’ argument to be part of the broader war on guns, although admittedly i’d probably find a lot more examples of politicians making such claims rather than the media (who I think generally have a difficult time fathoming _any_ use for firearms). ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/19 "2013-09-18T02:33:37Z")
You know what also gets misreported in gun spree killings? The number of shooters. They were looking for two other suspects most of yesterday. What kind of a war is that? A War on Extra Shooters? ---
**Author:** ![sentrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@sentrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sentrix)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/20 "2013-09-18T02:47:08Z")
america has a lot of catching up to do with civilized nations where guns are banned or accessible only to farmers for shooting feral animals, police and armed forces. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101.md?page=2)