# The War On Stupid People **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410 "2016-08-20T13:25:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/121 "2016-09-10T07:21:49Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Fuck that shit. I might lose my job this year and I’ve spent the last three hours trying to decide whether I should kill myself. And the thought that I keep circling back to is that people who fail deserve to be punished. I can’t comprehend how losers go on without killing themselves. I do hope you get help with that NOW. But the obvious answer is to try to convince yourself that losing this or any job is not failure, or losing, nor is either of those the be-all and end-all of existence. And you might start to question the failings of a system that could encourage such a mindset, or think it motivating, rather than blaming yourself. Look at all your skills and capabilities and where and how they might be useful to someone else, not just what you needed for a job that might not need you any more. “Failures” and mistakes are something to learn from. _Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better._ ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/122 "2016-09-10T07:24:49Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Who cares? People who fail deserve to be punished. Achievement is the only way a person’s life has value. If I got fired from my job and had to flip burgers, I would shoot myself in the head, because I don’t deserve to have a job at all. People who don’t try deserve to be punished. Or at least some of them do - if they don’t even care to better themselves. What a shitty thing to say. People that flip burgers may often be down on their luck… But at least they are looking to contribute until they find something better. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/123 "2016-09-10T07:32:16Z")
Chihuahua… Grow some balls or ovaries, and try not to think of yourself as a loser. Maybe if you volunteered your time, you wouldn’t feel that way. A homeless shelter full of so-called “losers” might turn your ways of thinking around. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/124 "2016-09-10T14:18:48Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Fuck that shit. I might lose my job this year and I’ve spent the last three hours trying to decide whether I should kill myself. And the thought that I keep circling back to is that people who fail deserve to be punished. I can’t comprehend how losers go on without killing themselves. Because it’s the internet, I can’t tell if you are serious or not, but it doesn’t really matter. Someone out there is thinking and feeling this, whether you are among those someones or not. People who fail are being “punished” by the failure. What they deserve is to learn and grow with the support of everyone around them. They won’t all do it. They can’t all do it. But that’s what they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/125 "2016-09-10T14:39:04Z")
Killing yourself because you got laid off and may have to work “any job” for awhile is the very definition of “stupid”. I don’t care how high your IQ is, you must not be all that smart if that’s the only solution you can think of. I’m all for people deciding for themselves how to deal with the pain and disappointment of life. But killing yourself because you’re now a “loser” compared to everyone else in your social circle for one fleeting moment in time? That’s messed up. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/126 "2016-09-10T21:18:40Z")
If working in fast food is a fate worse than death, then isn’t it unethical to buy from fast food corporations? Should the CEO kill himself as well? What about the store managers? Or is just the rank and file employees who aren’t worthy of life? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/127 "2016-09-11T00:04:15Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I seem to recall an article about how as many as 1/3(?) of parents trying to enter their kids into “gifted” programs. Well, if you count each and every gifted and AP programs, that can be a lot of different disciplines, with students qualifying for different ones. Let’s say that, instead of setting the best students to tutor the worst ones in most classes, my old K-8 had offered advanced programs for each subject in which the teacher had previously used the pairing technique: the amount of students who would _not_ have qualified for any of the advanced programs would have been about 10% of total students, and quite a few would have been in the advance program for some subjects but the need-reinforcing program in others. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/128 "2016-09-12T19:58:16Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Fuck that shit. I might lose my job this year and I’ve spent the last three hours trying to decide whether I should kill myself. And the thought that I keep circling back to is that people who fail deserve to be punished. I can’t comprehend how losers go on without killing themselves. A lot of smarter and harder working people than you have lost their jobs for one reason or another. Most don’t feel compelled to actually shoot themselves. Seriously, what is so great or unique about your job that you can’t find a similar one just like it? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/129 "2016-09-12T20:30:15Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Underlines added by me – The problem I see right there is, THAT is exactly what a “Liberal Education” (and not even college: even just a good High School) was supposed to prepare you for! > > By allowing Higher Ed be cast as job training on steroids with the target of placement in a specific “profession” (engineer, accountant, lawyer, professor of that same subject at some other college, etc) at the far end of the program, we have allowed the phenomenon that \*\*msmith537 \*\*describes to develop and take root. And yet I keep hearing and reading Higher Ed being described as job prep (listen to just about any candidate). I’ve said before that a college degree does demonstrate you have a marketable skill - you have the ability to get a college degree. No, I’m not joking. Getting a college degree is not a trivial task. It’s a project you have to work on for several years. You’re giving a set of guidelines, but you have to make you own plans for meeting those guidelines. You have to choose courses, develop a schedule, learn a large amount of new information, use that information to pass exams, meet standards set by other people, and deal with the normal vagarities of life while doing all that. It doesn’t matter if you get a degree in some subject like Medieval Literature; the skills you needed to develop to get that degree are valuable by themselves without consideration of what subject they were applied to. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/130 "2016-09-12T21:30:13Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > I can’t comprehend how losers go on without killing themselves. If all the losers killed themselves, the bar for success would be raised, then there’d be a new set of losers, who would kill themselves, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/131 "2016-09-12T21:57:59Z")
Can we stop calling these people, (i.e. me), “losers”. Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/132 "2016-09-12T22:31:48Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Fuck that shit. I might lose my job this year and I’ve spent the last three hours trying to decide whether I should kill myself. And the thought that I keep circling back to is that people who fail deserve to be punished. I can’t comprehend how losers go on without killing themselves. If lived (and died) by your rules, my tombstones would take up a small cemetery and I wouldn’t have the great job that I have now. This is 2016. People get laid off, furloughed and fired for little reason or absolutely no reason at all every day. You just have to find a new job, that’s all. Extremely few people have a secure job for life anymore. You shouldn’t be so much worried about your job as your resilience and backup plans because that is the real issue. Hint - if your backup plan lists Smith & Wesson as your first point of contact, you are approaching (potential) complications the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/133 "2016-09-15T03:35:14Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Fuck that shit. I might lose my job this year and I’ve spent the last three hours trying to decide whether I should kill myself. And the thought that I keep circling back to is that people who fail deserve to be punished. I can’t comprehend how losers go on without killing themselves. DO NOT kill yourself. You may not lose your job, and even if you do, look at it as an adventure and you may well find yourself with an even better job than the one you lost. Do you have any kind of support network? Take advantage of it. Call a crisis hotline if you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/134 "2016-09-15T17:46:10Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It’s the touchy-feely stuff that can’t be easily quantified. [And employers are increasingly recognizing this.](http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/04/colorado-workers-soft-skills-limited/) Why hire a geek who is a master of one thing, when a jack of all trades can do what the geek does with the help of some canned scripts or a GUI…in addition to five other jobs, including managing budgets and schmoozing clients? A jack of all trades doesn’t need to have a high IQ. They just need to know how to work well with others and manage people and time. > > It may be that being able to juggle multiple balls in the air is something that smart people are disproportionately good at doing. But there are plenty of smart people who just can’t do it. I think as automation continues to expand, we’ll start to see both smart and not-so-smart folks struggling to find and keep jobs. The one thing they’ll have in common is that they don’t possess the right combination of soft skills. Yes, if “jack of all trades” means “all the dumb administrative bullshit I don’t want to bother the engineers with”. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > People who fail are being “punished” by the failure. What they deserve is to learn and grow with the support of everyone around them. They won’t all do it. They can’t all do it. But that’s what they deserve. I think a couple months unpaid vacation is enough “punishment”. Not death. Plus, why am I being “punished”? I know revenue is way down, but I didn’t fire our best account manager because he punched the CEO in the balls at the Christmas party. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/135 "2016-09-15T17:57:50Z")
Under the terms described in the OP, there is no more a War on the Stupid than there is one on Christmas. That said and now to the more serious topic at hand: > [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Can we stop calling these people, (i.e. me), “losers”. Yes, indeed, that would be a good if modest start at dealing with it. The expression has evolved from referring to simply someone who did not “win”, into an implication that it is some sort of character deficiency for which they are morally guilty. **Chihuahua** I hope that was hyperbole, if not, reach out – you are falling like many others into an all too common trap of tying one’s sense of self to not being one of the “losers”. Freeing your mind from that is a major step to health. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/136 "2016-09-15T19:26:30Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Yes, indeed, that would be a good if modest start at dealing with it. The expression has evolved from referring to simply someone who did not “win”, into an implication that it is some sort of character deficiency for which they are morally guilty. > > **Chihuahua** I hope that was hyperbole, if not, reach out – you are falling like many others into an all too common trap of tying one’s sense of self to not being one of the “losers”. Freeing your mind from that is a major step to health. **JRDelirious** Thank you for stepping in. I just don’t think of myself and my co-workers, along with people who aren’t even lucky enough to have a job, (but want to work), as “losers”. I wouldn’t see **Chihuahua** as a “loser” if he/she would lose their job, and had to find work someplace else that’s not as desirable, (which hopefully would be temporary). **Chihuahua** I’m sorry I was so tough on you before. I just know that I’ve come to Straight Dope a few times where I was at the end of my rope, and I actually benefitted from people talking to me in the same manner. If you need help, please, PLEASE get some. You’re “worth” shouldn’t be measured in that way. That’s why I suggested volunteer work, or if you can’t do that, just \*think \*about those who do. They are contributing an awful lot for little or no compensation, and it’s all to help those who need a hand. It may not be glamorous, but it’s really satisfying for them, and it helps people that have it even worse than you or I. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/137 "2016-09-15T20:36:38Z")
I’d like to toss in another issue - mandatory drug testing. Where I work so many people cant get in because they smoke a little weed now and then and the drug tests pick that up and they are disqualified from even the entry level positions. I’ve been told the tests can be positive even if they havent done any in a month. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/138 "2016-09-15T20:56:17Z")
Back to the OP: I work with persons with special needs and one of the things we ask employers to do is set aside 1 or 2 jobs for persons with low-IQ or have other issues. Basically a job that doesnt really require much brains but DOES require the person be on time, work hard, stay focused, and follow directions. For example one company has a woman who does things like makes coffee in the break room and delivers correspondence to the different offices and staff. She is a valued worker who has made “employee of the month” several times just because she is reliable, does her work perfectly, and has a great attitude. best of all people say she is a welcome relief from the stab-others-in-the-back/office politics/bad attitudes of many of the more “intelligent” staff. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/139 "2016-09-15T23:43:31Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > **JRDelirious** Thank you for stepping in. I just don’t think of myself and my co-workers, along with people who aren’t even lucky enough to have a job, (but want to work), as “losers”. I wouldn’t see **Chihuahua** as a “loser” if he/she would lose their job, and had to find work someplace else that’s not as desirable, (which hopefully would be temporary). > > **Chihuahua** I’m sorry I was so tough on you before. I just know that I’ve come to Straight Dope a few times where I was at the end of my rope, and I actually benefitted from people talking to me in the same manner. If you need help, please, PLEASE get some. You’re “worth” shouldn’t be measured in that way. That’s why I suggested volunteer work, or if you can’t do that, just \*think \*about those who do. They are contributing an awful lot for little or no compensation, and it’s all to help those who need a hand. It may not be glamorous, but it’s really satisfying for them, and it helps people that have it even worse than you or I. 95% of the people I’ve seen laid off were perfectly competent, but had the bad luck to be working on a project which failed - no fault of theirs. In one case we had a job fair to “hire” as many engineers as possible who were at risk. Hardly losers. I can assure you (and **Chihuahua** ) that in Silicon Valley getting laid off is not a sign of being a loser - and we’ve hired plenty of people who have. That doesn’t even include that people who get fired when the financial industry destroys the economy. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410/140 "2016-09-15T23:52:14Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yes, if “jack of all trades” means “all the dumb administrative bullshit I don’t want to bother the engineers with”. Or scientists. I don’t do well with the warm and fuzzy stuff either. But someone’s got to do the “dumb administrative stuff”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-stupid-people/763410.md?page=8)