# The Washington Post: Democracy Dies With Us **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [October 25, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210 "2024-10-25T17:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/181 "2024-10-27T18:39:57Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Let’s imagine you own a media source that is explicitly dedicated to supporting a women’s rights. Right to vote, equal pay, abortion and so on. > > Your journalists decide naw…they are against pro-choice and equal rights and so on. > > You, as the owner, need to let them express their journalistic freedom as they see fit? Either an Editorial Board can publish what it wants to publish, or it can’t. Remember, none of this is about “straight reporting”—it’s about an editorial that by insider accounts was already written. The WaPo board had decided to endorse. The owner, presumably fearing his own wealth was threatened by the editorial, said ‘no’ you can’t publish this. In your analogy, with a pro-women’s rights owner who hired anti-women’s rights staff (and editorial board, presumably), the board decides to publish an anti-woman editorial and the owner, in response, fires them. Okay, fine. That’s not what happened at the Washington Post, though. What happened at the WaPo was _censorship_– **not** the firing of personnel whose views differed from those of the owner. I think most would agree with you that owners of a paper can hire staff to their taste, and fire those who have opposing views if they like. (Though reporting on that situation—the firing of those whose views are opposite to the views of the owner—is legitimate journalism.) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/182 "2024-10-27T20:05:22Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > You’re just someone taking a paycheck for being a propagandist for a billionaire. And which they should have seen coming and dreading since the day he bought it to begin with. Why else would such a person, entirely from outside the news media sphere, buy an establishment newspaper when we know establishment newspapers barely sustain themselves anymore? As a prestige project? You could endow a museum or a scholarly foundation instead. Oh sure he’d be hands off on the actual journalism part. _Until it would run contrary to his own interests._ Was anyone really that naive? … Y’know, say what you will of Rupert Murdoch, the bastard _is_ a _media_ man. He _wants to shape public opinion_ and anyone paying attention knows that is his life and can tell in what direction and to what purpose. When you work there you _know_ what the mission and vision is unless you really are an idiot. One can actually grudgingly _respect_ that. Bezos OTOH as someone else said cares little about that part of the journalistic mission. The paper’s reputation is being thrown away protecting interests related to extraneous parts of Bezos’ businesses, and by doing this _he’s validating that Trump was right to be mad at **him** in his other businesses for things WaPo published,_ because he has proven he **does** control what WaPo publishes. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/183 "2024-10-27T20:16:54Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And which they should have seen coming and dreading since the day he bought it to begin with. Why else would such a person, entirely from outside the news media sphere, buy an establishment newspaper when we know establishment newspapers barely sustain themselves anymore? First of all, there are very few people left in in the “news media sphere” _because_, as you said, establishment newspapers barely sustain themselves. Second, even those _in_ the news media sphere weren’t always so; Katharine Graham’s father wasn’t when he bought the paper. I think the hope when Bezos bought the paper (certainly this was _my_ hope) was that he would be willing to back it whether or not it was profitable. In short, that he would be willing to throw money at it. Ideally, it would compete with the New York Times as the leading paper in the country. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/184 "2024-10-27T21:28:13Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And which they should have seen coming and dreading since the day he bought it to begin with. … Oh sure he’d be hands off on the actual journalism part. _Until it would run contrary to his own interests._ Was anyone really that naive? It wasn’t necessarily naivety–it was plausible that Bezos was in it for the prestige. Make WaPo the “paper of record” instead of the NYT: that’s not impossible as a goal for a rich man who wanted to be praised. (In the case of being a hands-off owner of a major paper, for being an adherent of truth who could put aside self-interest in favor of the public good.) As Dewey\_Finn just said: > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think the hope when Bezos bought the paper (certainly this was _my_ hope) was that he would be willing to back it whether or not it was profitable. It wasn’t crazy to think that possible. Some rich men DO want to be looked up to as public benefactors. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > The paper’s reputation is being thrown away protecting interests related to extraneous parts of Bezos’ businesses, and by doing this _he’s validating that Trump was right to be mad at **him** in his other businesses for things WaPo published,_ because he has proven he **does** control what WaPo publishes. Quite true. Bezos has lost any ability to claim he’s different from Murdoch, certainly. Or from Trump himself. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/185 "2024-10-27T23:12:26Z")
I didn’t see this posted before: > **[Ex-Washington Post Editor Robert Kagan: This Is a Straight Jeff Bezos-Donald...](https://www.thedailybeast.com/ex-washington-post-editor-robert-kagan-this-is-a-straight-jeff-bezos-donald-trump-quid-pro-quo/)** > > Robert Kagan tells the Daily Beast that Donald Trump’s meeting with Blue Origin executives the day its founder Jeff Bezos killed his paper’s Kamala Harris endorsement is proof of a backroom deal. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/186 "2024-10-27T23:30:36Z")
_The Daily Beast_ quoting Kagan: > “Trump waited to make sure that Bezos did what he said he was going to do, and then met with the Blue Origin people,” he said on Saturday. “Which tells us that there was an actual deal made, meaning that Bezos communicated, or through his people, communicated directly with Trump, and they set up this quid pro quo.” The ~~poor~~ rich sap still doesn’t realize that with Trump you pay plenty of quid but never see the pro quo. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/187 "2024-10-27T23:32:54Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I didn’t see this posted before: Thank you for this. Jeff Tiedrich’s newsletter quoted this piece in his newsletter today. > **[Washington Post endorses fascism](https://www.jefftiedrich.com/p/washington-post-endorses-fascism)** > > the useless press has already capitulated to Elderly Dictator ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/188 "2024-10-28T00:05:28Z")
A “once in a lifetime” Black Friday deal – get in on it before it’s gone! – > **[Jeff Bezos Sells Washington Post’s Integrity in Latest Amazon Prime Deal](https://www.borowitzreport.com/p/jeff-bezos-sells-washington-posts)** > > The Amazon product page called the Post’s integrity “a signature feature that made this former newspaper great." ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/189 "2024-10-28T11:03:37Z")
“Great, Jeff. I would like you to do us _another_ favor, though…” ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/190 "2024-10-28T11:24:32Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I wonder if Trump threatened Bezos. Trump has been threatening Bezos all along. He did his best to punish Amazon while he was president through legislation. He hates Bezos, mainly because of the Post. For Bezos, the Post is a money-losing toy he can well afford to let fail. Not so Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/191 "2024-10-28T14:31:35Z")
I cancelled my subscription today, and sent a letter to the editor about it. We’re also cutting back on our Amazon subscriptions. Now I’m looking for an alternative news source, and alternative online stores. Which is hard - my wife and I went to a physical store yesterday to buy something specific, and they didn’t have what we wanted. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/192 "2024-10-28T14:50:34Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > my wife and I went to a physical store yesterday to buy something specific, and they didn’t have what we wanted Can they order it for you? Often that’s possible – and can often be done by phone or online in advance; even for smaller indy brick-and-mortars. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/193 "2024-10-28T14:54:36Z")
For anyone looking for alternatives to Amazon, Walmart, for one, is trying to be an alternative. They bought an ecommerce company called [Jet.com](http://Jet.com). ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/194 "2024-10-28T14:55:53Z")
Walmart has some of its own problems; though I don’t offhand know whether any of them have to do with political partisanship. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/195 "2024-10-28T14:57:55Z")
Yeah–Walmart is also virulently anti-union, and their “charitable” arm has done a lot to push a school-choice agenda that I think is fundamentally harmful to society. We canceled our Amazon Prime more than a year ago, and miss it a lot less than we thought we would. If you’re considering canceling it, it’s worth a shot: it’s not like there’s a reinstatement fee if you find you can’t live without it. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/196 "2024-10-28T14:59:11Z")
I cancelled my Amazon after the Wheel of Time series came out. Turned out I never needed Amazon as much as I thought; haven’t looked back. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/197 "2024-10-28T14:59:12Z")
Honestly, though, if you’re going to strictly choose companies you deal with based on whether you agree with the political views of the companies themselves or their majority owners, you are going to have a hard time finding _anyone_ to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/198 "2024-10-28T15:06:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > if you’re going to strictly choose companies you deal with based on whether you agree with the political views of the companies themselves or their majority owners, you are going to have a hard time finding _anyone_ to deal with True. It can even be a problem with genuine indies. I have ceased using the gas station with the huge Trump signs all over the inside – for all I know the ones I’m using instead share the politics, but at least they’re not trying to hit their customers over the head with them. However, if one’s going to make some judgements on those lines, it seems to me that if there are multiple issues one cares about then a certain amount of balancing them before boycotting (or ending a boycott) is a good idea; and simply pretending they’re not there is a bad idea. Of course, in a lot of cases it’s hard to tell; not every position or action is publicized. ---
**Author:** ![bobsmom101](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobsmom101/32/2867_2.png) [@bobsmom101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobsmom101)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/199 "2024-10-28T16:12:55Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Trump was right to be mad at **him** i Bezos is acting like a Russian oligarch who is worried he’s about to be defenestrated. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/200 "2024-10-28T17:04:53Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I have ceased using the gas station with the huge Trump signs all over the inside – for all I know the ones I’m using instead share the politics, but at least they’re not trying to hit their customers over the head with them. There are many places in the local area that I don’t frequent for exactly the same reason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210.md?page=11)