# The Washington Post: Democracy Dies With Us **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [October 25, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210 "2024-10-25T17:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/261 "2024-10-29T20:57:43Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > The Post didn’t “withdraw” any endorsement, it just decided not to issue one at all This sounds an awful lot like arguing in bad faith. You know what they did is withdrawing a planned endorsement. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/262 "2024-10-29T21:03:44Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > > [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > > > The Post didn’t “withdraw” any endorsement, it just decided not to issue one at all > > This sounds an awful lot like arguing in bad faith. I wasn’t intentionally doing so, but it seems most people got that impression. In any event, I will agree that it’s a distinction without a difference, and leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/263 "2024-10-29T21:37:03Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Don’t forget: they don’t WANT government to work. They _think_ they don’t want government to work, but if this happened they’d soon discover that there are actually administrative parts of the government that they need to function to do the things they want, like when Trump wanted to build “Wall” and then discovered that he needed government agencies to issue a Request For Proposal, evaluate bids, convince Congress to allocate funds, designate a program management structure, et cetera. It’s all the hard work of getting things done on the scale of large infrastructure projects, even if they are stupid and pointless projects. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/264 "2024-10-29T21:41:18Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > they’d soon discover that there are actually administrative parts of the government that they need to function to do the things they want Okay, I’ll buy that. But I do suspect that Trump will say _'why can’t we just use the Army?_’ to get around a lot of ‘how do we get this done?’ questions. And who will there be to say NO to him? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/265 "2024-10-29T21:44:25Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > And who will there be to say NO to him? The Army will probably say no. I mean, really. It would be a crisis, but you’re going to have commanders refusing to follow an unlawful order (which they not only can do, but are required to do). ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/266 "2024-10-29T21:55:25Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Okay, I’ll buy that. But I do suspect that Trump will say _'why can’t we just use the Army?_’ to get around a lot of ‘how do we get this done?’ questions. They used the US Army Corps of Engineers [to manage the construction of 800 linear feet of border barricade in Yuma, AZ](https://www.usace.army.mil/Media/News-Archive/Story-Article-View/Article/2161736/corps-awards-76-million-border-barrier-contract/) (which, at US$9,500/foot was an exorbitant waste). The Corps of Engineers has little construction capability itself and all large scale construction work is done by commercial contractors, and as anyone who has to deal with defense contracting in the last couple of decades can attest to, nothing gets done on any timeframe which even a tortoise would consider to be ‘fast’. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/267 "2024-10-29T22:07:26Z")
Plus the Army Corps of Engineers fucks up everything they touch and all their projects are environmental disasters. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/268 "2024-10-29T22:53:06Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I saw something yesterday, though I can’t remember where, that talked about how the mass deportations would be a challenge; there are 1.9 million people already in prisons/jails in America and he talks about detaining and deporting anything from 2-20 million (the number varies depending on what size ketchup bottle is in front of him). That this would require hiring hundreds of thousands of additional immigration officers. Probably John Oliver (Last Week Tonight). Excellent viewing for anyone who hasn’t seen it yet. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/269 "2024-10-29T22:55:36Z")
I think you’re correct that I saw that on Last Week Tonight. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/270 "2024-10-29T22:55:55Z")
Sixty Minutes also did a very good piece on the deportation (lack of) plan this past Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/271 "2024-10-29T23:10:27Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And while i respect a media source that never endorses candidates, it’s craven to decide to withdraw an endorsement immediately before an election. Yup, had they announced last year that they weren’t going to endorse candidates for president anymore, it would have been a non-issue, but to do so after the endorsement was written is just pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/272 "2024-10-29T23:15:25Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > The Army will probably say no. > > I mean, really. It would be a crisis, but you’re going to have commanders refusing to follow an unlawful order (which they not only can do, but are required to do). Hmm Are you saying that the military would refuse an order by their Commander-in-Chief to capture and detain foreign invaders who are pouring across the border seeking to destroy our country and way of life? (Is what I imagine their side saying.) I don’t know. I think it’s at least possible that the military might split. I think it’s possible that could happen over disputed election results, too. I might be too cynical, but I’d rather that than being overly optimistic at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/273 "2024-10-29T23:15:52Z")
Or on November 6th. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/274 "2024-10-29T23:33:49Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > I don’t know. I think it’s at least possible that the military might split. Oh I think so too, that’s one reason why I meant that it would be a crisis. It wouldn’t be a good thing, the Army dividing against itself, if that happened. But there’s no way they’d all go lockstep and follow clearly illegal orders. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/275 "2024-10-30T00:35:00Z")
Well, I read the Bezos justification. I don’t believe him. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/276 "2024-10-30T00:50:48Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > Are you saying that the military would refuse an order by their Commander-in-Chief to capture and detain foreign invaders who are pouring across the border seeking to destroy our country and way of life? I’m saying the military would refuse an order to engage in law enforcement. > **[Posse Comitatus Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act)** > > The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes that limits the powers of the federal government in the use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States. Congress passed the Act as an amendment to an army appropriation bill following the end of Reconstruction and updated it in 1956, 1981 and 2021. > The Act originally applied only to the United St... ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/277 "2024-10-30T00:56:51Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m saying the military would refuse an order to engage in law enforcement. [Keep reading…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enforcement_Acts) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/278 "2024-10-30T01:01:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m saying the military would refuse an order to engage in law enforcement. The history of military behaviour - not to mention the Supreme Court saying Presidents can do basically anything if cloaked in it being “official” - would indicate there is a 99.9% chance the military will follow Trump’s irder. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/279 "2024-10-30T01:04:35Z")
That’s not true. The US military is actually one of the strongest institutions in the world and they extensively teach officers the nature of the military in relation to law and civilian life. Now Trump replacing generals with his sycophants over time is a concern, but I think the US military would actually resist open militant fascism pretty effectively in the immediate future, and I’m someone who is an outspoken critic of how much American institutions have crumbled in the nature of encroaching fascism. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/280 "2024-10-30T01:05:02Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > all their projects are environmental disasters. Yes but for Trump and his ilk, that would be a plus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210.md?page=15)