# The Washington Post: Democracy Dies With Us **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [October 25, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210 "2024-10-25T17:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/541 "2025-03-22T05:48:08Z")
> [@natureboy](#): > > …and one party positioned itself better to capitalize that anger. And fear. And hate. And ignorance. And racism. And xenophobia. And misogyny. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/542 "2025-03-22T05:56:54Z")
No comfy chairs though. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/543 "2025-03-22T06:48:28Z")
No fanatical devotion to the Pope, either. He’s not Catholic enough for them and he keeps talking about woke nonsense like loving the poor. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/544 "2025-03-22T07:27:17Z")
> [@natureboy](#): > > I don’t necessarily think there’s good intent, only intent. Tariffs are more than just strictly economics; they’re statecraft, too. They are leverage that enables the administration to achieve things, and by that I mean transitioning away from global trade that really forces the US into twin deficits that are unsustainable and into smaller multilateral trading relationships that serve US interests. Even if true (and that’s a whole other thread), none of that is relevant here. It’s not what Trump is doing or why. Here’s what’s actually happening: 1. Trump STILL thinks that tariffs are paid by the country on which they’re imposed. In his mind they are a win-win for him - he gets to punish them for whatever perceived infraction and get paid for it. The fact that they cause short-term (in the form of inflation) and long-term damage (in the form of lost trade agreements) to Americans is something he seems to neither know nor care about. 2. He STILL thinks that trade deficits mean that the other country “owes” us somehow. Despite the utter nonsense of it, this is one of the perceived infractions Trump uses to justify imposing tariffs. 3. It is blatantly obvious he’s not using tariffs as any sort of economic policy tool but as a blunt weapon to bully other countries into doing whatever he demands. Because a petty little bully is what he is. This isn’t the four-dimensional chess Trump supporters claim it is. It’s basic [Madman Theory](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory), using tariffs instead of military might. And alienating our allies and hurting America is not a secret benefit. Except to Russia, of course. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/545 "2025-03-22T10:35:16Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Inflation. Period. Ahhh, come on, the Democratic party’s problems started long before 2022. > [@Atamasama](#): > > And Trump’s making it so much worse. Agreed. > [@Atamasama](#): > > And you’re grossly overexaggerating. There weren’t that many “competitive” states and they didn’t go MAGA red. States like Indiana, Ohio, Missouri, and Florida used to be in play. Now they are not. What happened? > [@Atamasama](#): > > You’re spreading right wing bullshit and people aren’t buying it pal. What is ‘right wing’ about anything I’ve said? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/546 "2025-03-22T10:40:41Z")
> [@natureboy](#): > > States like Indiana, Ohio, Missouri, and Florida used to be in play. Now they are not. What happened? Relentless gaslighting by the right. > [@natureboy](#): > > What is ‘right wing’ about anything I’ve said? Any of this sound familiar? > [@natureboy](#): > > If Democrats want to regain their political footing, especially in terms of regaining the trust of working class Americans, they’re going to have to at least begrudgingly embrace some of what Trump is doing. Drop some of the woke. Promote more working class policies. Biden did some good, but I think that in a lot of people’s minds, it’s Trump who started it 8 years ago. He’s the “OG” when it comes to getting tough with China and pushing for reshoring. “Drop some of the woke”? And portraying Trump’s approach to China as the opposite of what it actually was (while downplaying Biden’s far more effective approach)? ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/547 "2025-03-22T10:44:03Z")
Trump is a moron who knows nothing about economics. That doesn’t change the fact that he is anti-trade and has been since at least the 1980s, and regardless of how we feel about his brand of politics, there are merits to ending the current neoliberal trade regime, which hasn’t always existed. Tariffs as policy have existed in this country since its founding. They are tools. Nothing more, nothing less. I certainly wouldn’t advocate tariffs in the chaotic manner they’ve been implemented, but I think people are reflexively defending the current system of global trade because they don’t like the guy who’s trying to tear it down. They’re thinking about this emotionally, and not logically. Long before now, Democrats should have done what Trump is trying to do now. They would have done it more intelligently and less chaotically, and they would have an identity as a worker’s party. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/548 "2025-03-22T10:56:39Z")
> [@natureboy](#): > > I think people are reflexively defending the current system of global trade because they don’t like the guy who’s trying to tear it down. They’re thinking about this emotionally, and not logically. Why do you assume that? Is it because you can’t accept that others might reach a different conclusion than yours on a sound basis? Tariffs and other protectionist policies have their uses (and you are correct that Trump’s use of them is batshit), but your characterization of the benefits of some of the results of what Trump is doing owes little to “logic”. Which may be why you keep ignoring my point about your gross misrepresentation of Trump’s relationship with China. And why you handwave away Biden’s approach, which _did_ result in onshoring and a manufacturing boom (unlike Trump who damaged the domestic manufacturing sector while actively expanding China’s). But please keep pretending that it’s the rest of us who are basing our arguments on emotion rather than logic because “TrUmP bAd”. Although “we have to break everything to build something better” is certainly a very popular right-wing view right now…. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/549 "2025-03-22T11:02:58Z")
I know this is the Pit, so threads go where they may, but as the OP, I’m hoping to refocus this on all the bad things happening at the Post if possible. I bet there’s another Trump thread you could use to bash on the guy who has swallowed 80% of the propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/550 "2025-03-22T11:42:32Z")
I accidentally clicked on a Post article the other day, and immediately a window popped up saying “Resubscribe! $60 a year!” Which, to be honest, feels like they’re not even trying. I think I may have been paying less than that when I quit. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/551 "2025-03-22T12:14:38Z")
I was paying that when i quit. I think i had it set up to pay them $5 each month. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/552 "2025-03-22T12:15:45Z")
And i didn’t feel bad about that payment. Until i did. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/553 "2025-03-22T13:04:12Z")
Tariffs are more than just economics; they are statecraft. From a mercantilist’s point of view, they can be seen as breaking the control that other countries have over the United States economy, forever forcing us into further financialization and asset-inflation of our economy at the expense of our labor and working class. Biden and Harris, like most centrist Democrats, were still committed to that status quo, which is why they lost. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/554 "2025-03-22T13:13:33Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Which may be why you keep ignoring my point about your gross misrepresentation of Trump’s relationship with China. And why you handwave away Biden’s approach, which _did_ result in onshoring and a manufacturing boom (unlike Trump who damaged the domestic manufacturing sector while actively expanding China’s). I didn’t handwave anything. Biden actually institutionalized many of the Trump tariffs on China, and even doubled down on some others. Whether we like Trump or not, he is bull in the China shop (no pun intended) that broke the mold and changed the narrative on free trade. Biden, to his credit, did get some legislative accomplishments through CHIPs and other policies that encouraged reshoring. Much of it is still in the investment phase but will pay dividends in time. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/555 "2025-03-22T13:26:42Z")
> [@natureboy](#): > > Tariffs are more than just economics; they are statecraft. Yes, I know. As I pointed out regarding Trump’s use of them. > [@](#): > > From a mercantilist’s point of view, they can be seen as breaking the control that other countries have over the United States economy, forever forcing us into further financialization and asset-inflation of our economy at the expense of our labor and working class. That’s an ideology-driven description of how tariffs work, not an empirical one. And - again - it doesn’t apply in this case. > [@](#): > > Biden and Harris, like most centrist Democrats, were still committed to that status quo, which is why they lost. Isn’t it funny how everyone says “If only Biden/Harris had [done X thing or taken X position I wanted them to], they wouldn’t have lost”? It’s almost as if they’re thinking about this emotionally rather than logically. > > [@natureboy](#): > > I didn’t handwave anything. …he says, handwaving it away. > [@natureboy](#): > > Whether we like Trump or not, he is bull in the China shop (no pun intended) that broke the mold and changed the narrative on free trade. This is entirely imaginary. The only narrative he broke is the one in which presidents should be competent and not openly corrupt. And his actions benefited China and hurt the US immensely, which served to demonstrate to every other country that they should _not_ follow his example. And couldn’t trust any agreements (trade or otherwise) with the US. But thank you for once again confirming the “we need to break everything to make things better” narrative. It’s a bit like praising the Nazis for facilitating urban development in London. Anyhoo - fuck the WP, amirite? Also, I’m paying five bucks a **week** for the paper version of the NYT to be delivered to my aged mother, who likes the Arts section. I’m not thrilled about it (giving money to the NYT) but it keeps her happy and I use the subscription for the games. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/556 "2025-03-22T13:30:17Z")
Though I’m a bit hesitant to participate in the digression, I’d like to offer this: > [@Trump's Economic Plan](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-economic-plan/1005796/69): > > Of the Trump-Biden tariffs, the Tax Foundation says, essentially: We estimate the Trump-Biden tariffs will reduce long-run GDP by 0.2 percent, the capital stock by 0.1 percent, and employment by 142,000 full-time equivalent jobs. Candidate Trump has proposed significant tariff hikes as part of his presidential campaign; we estimate that if imposed, his proposed tariff increases would hike taxes by another $524 billion annually and shrink GDP by at least 0.8 percent, the capital stock by 0.7… By which I mean: I understand what I believe @natureboy to be saying, here. [I also believe that @RitterSport is right: there are a number of existing threads where this conversation better continues, so … my apologies. I won’t take this point further on this thread] ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/557 "2025-03-22T13:30:59Z")
Please take it to another thread. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/558 "2025-03-22T13:33:47Z")
Maybe this one? > [@The Trump Administration: The Clusterfuck Continues](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues/1010068): > > Well, the CF has already started and the dude’s not even in office again. [First off, he wants the Senate to give him power to bypass the Senate.](https://www.aol.com/news/trump-declares-senate-majority-candidates-230520625.html) (The link goes to AOL.) “Any Republican Senator seeking the coveted LEADERSHIP position in the United States Senate must agree to Recess Appointments (in the Senate!), without which we will not be able to get people confirmed in a timely manner,” Trump wrote, adding, “Sometimes the votes can take two years, or more. This is what they did four years a… Or, maybe someone could start a pit thread about tariffs? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/559 "2025-03-22T17:34:38Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > "I feel some sympathy towards Bezos. I really like him, personally. […] I think the real Bezos is not a bad guy. Well, here’s where Lewis is in error. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/560 "2025-03-22T21:52:44Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s a bit like praising the Nazis for facilitating urban development in London. Yeah, the Nazis might have helped out with some urban design skills, the East End of London is a high-rise ghetto, for the most part. Not that Trump would be better, Trump Tower Stratford would be equally bad as his idiot idea for Trump Tower Gaza. But anyway, back to the point: they float a banner “democracy dies with us” and they literally support that death? Fuck the WaPo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210.md?page=29)