# The Washington Post: Democracy Dies With Us **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [October 25, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210 "2024-10-25T17:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/81 "2024-10-26T00:08:16Z")
Edited because meant to be a pm. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/82 "2024-10-26T00:48:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > > > I vacillate myself on whether I really think this is the case. Sometimes I think Trump is a real threat to our fundamental democratic structures, and then other parts of me admonish myself for thinking that, and I try to remind myself that this is a resilient country, having been through a civil war, an almost complete meltdown of our economic system, world wars, and threats of nuclear annihilation, and that our country will weather these times as we have weathered everything else. > > Read about [Project 2025](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c977njnvq2do). > > Also, see what Trump has said just today (or yesterday): > > [Donald Trump and the runup to the 2024 election - #720 by Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/donald-trump-and-the-runup-to-the-2024-election/1005196/720) > > > Trump says he wants total unchecked power to deport Jack Smith for investigating him: “Jack Smith should be considered mentally deranged and he should be thrown out of the country” > > > > Trump says Americans who criticize the Supreme Court for overturning Roe v. Wade should be imprisoned: “These people should be put in jail for the way they talk about our judges and justices” > > > > Trump says Americans who don’t support him are “enemies” and are “more dangerous” than Russia and North Korea > > I believe our major newspapers have an obligation to comment on that. > > _“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time”_ ~ Maya Angelou I endorse this post, and this mirrors pretty much what I was going to reply. So instead let me put it a slightly different way. Trump’s first term was an unmitigated disaster that seriously undermined the confidence that nations were willing to place in US foreign policy, and undermined America’s prestige and diplomatic “soft power” in the world. It literally killed thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Americans due to gross mismanagement of the COVID pandemic – actual human beings who would be alive today if Trump had not been elected. The only reason – the **only** reason – that Trump’s first term wasn’t much, much worse was that so much damage was mitigated by his gross incompetence: he was completely incapable of doing the horrible things he wanted to do because he was an idiot, and also concerned with being re-elected. The only real “accomplishment” he had was just rubber-stamping the Supreme Court appointments favoured by far-right extremists like the Federalist Society, acting as their hapless puppet, and the consequences of that are something that America will have to live with for generations. But Trump’s second term, if it comes about, will be his final term, whether it lasts for just four years or whether he uses his newfound immunity powers to stay in office for life. Either way, it will be a term without any constraints by considerations of ethics, democracy, tradition, political niceties, or anything else. Trump is a deranged lunatic who has explicitly stated that his main priority will be to wage a reign of terror against his perceived enemies. Legal protections for his victims will no longer mean anything as the Supreme Court has already ruled that a president is above the law (at least, if the president is Trump). Trump’s pal Steve Bannon already stated – while being escorted to jail – that everyone responsible for prosecuting him, Trump, or any of Trump’s allies will be pursued to the ends of the earth, and if they try to flee the country will be extradited. Trump isn’t truly interested in immigration issues one way or the other, nor does he even understand them, but to appease his Nazi acolytes he’ll make attempts to round up innocents and their families and children – people who are in the US legally and working productive jobs – and pull them from their jobs, break up families, and remove them from the US where they have legal safe refuge. (When this failed to work well enough for the Nazis, that’s when the concentration camps went into high gear.) Just a sampling of Trump’s second term. This is not a normal election. It’s a national existential crisis. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/83 "2024-10-26T00:56:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The only reason – the **only** reason – that Trump’s first term wasn’t much, much worse was that so much damage was mitigated by his gross incompetence: he was completely incapable of doing the horrible things he wanted to do because he was an idiot, and also concerned with being re-elected. And that is why we now have Project 2025. The fascist assholes are prepared if Trump gets into office to maximize their power grab and push their agenda. It’s a roadmap, it is public and yet most people think it is somehow just a joke or a lark. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/84 "2024-10-26T01:02:57Z")
Well, wouldn’t you know who won the pony? > ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/85 "2024-10-26T01:15:13Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > I try to remind myself that this is a resilient country, having been through a civil war, an almost complete meltdown of our economic system, world wars, and threats of nuclear annihilation, and that our country will weather these times as we have weathered everything else. Quite a lot of people didn’t weather the Civil War. They died of it; including many who died of it though not on the battlefields. Your certainty that you won’t take any damage from a Trump presidency may well be misplaced. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/86 "2024-10-26T01:20:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, wouldn’t you know who won the pony? Whether it’s Elmo, Bezos, the Kochs, Peter Thiel (who I still say bears a remarkable resemblance to Joseph Goebbels) there appears to be no end of billionaires willing to sell out their country just to get more and more billions, because no amount of billions is enough. Yay for unrestricted capitalism! MAGA! ---
**Author:** ![XOldiesJock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ec9cab/32.png) [@XOldiesJock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XOldiesJock)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/87 "2024-10-26T01:37:13Z")
This was a gutless, cowardly move by Jeff Bezos, an affront to good journalism and to the legacy of what is still one of America’s great newspapers. I’d cancel my subscription but it runs until July and there are still too many things on the WaPo that I enjoy reading every day. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/88 "2024-10-26T01:42:29Z")
> [@XOldiesJock](#): > > I’d cancel my subscription but it runs until July and there are still too many things on the WaPo that I enjoy reading every day. If it runs to July then they already have the money for the subscription until then. If you cancel you still get to read it till next July. Then it will not renew. If they give you a refund for the unused months then it may cancel immediately but I’d be shocked if they gave a refund. ---
**Author:** ![XOldiesJock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ec9cab/32.png) [@XOldiesJock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XOldiesJock)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/89 "2024-10-26T01:50:16Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > _If it runs to July then they already have the money for the subscription until then. If you cancel you still get to read it till next July. Then it will not renew._ Yes, I know. Cancelling is only symbolic…and what good is that? Once you are subscribed, you can still read it until your subscription runs out. We got it at a really cheap introductory rate, then a week before that ended, they reminded me that if I wanted to renew, it would be the full rate. I cancelled, and they immediately gave it to me at the cheap introductory rate again. ---
**Author:** ![bobsmom101](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobsmom101/32/2867_2.png) [@bobsmom101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobsmom101)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/90 "2024-10-26T01:51:48Z")
They accepted my cacellation, but said I would continue receiving my e-sub through June. Meanwhile, the NY Post has boldly endorsed------------ Trump. We are in a post-newspaper world. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/91 "2024-10-26T02:00:09Z")
I mean when they say “Democracy dies in darkness” they don’t explicitly say that’s a bad thing ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/92 "2024-10-26T02:00:49Z")
> [@bobsmom101](#): > > Meanwhile, the NY Post has boldly endorsed------------ > > Trump. That’s fine (and expected). The endorsement hopefully comes with some reasoning from the editorial board of the paper and one would expect some papers will differ. Then we can read their reasons and make our own choices. I’ll have to lookup the New York Post’s endorsement. I am curious how they rationalize Trump for president. ETA: I looked up the [New York Post’s endorsement](https://nypost.com/2024/10/25/opinion/the-post-endorses-donald-trump-for-president-the-clear-choice-for-a-better-future/). It’s not good at all and can be easily picked apart by anyone who has been paying attention. You’d think an editorial board would do better but…it’s the Post so maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/93 "2024-10-26T02:04:41Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > > [@Atamasama](#): > > > > Troll harder, puppy. ⁢ > > not trolling, just think your fussy indignation is hilarious. ⁢ And that’s different from trolling, how? I didn’t actually have a problem with your initial comment. I mean, I think it’s ill-informed, but you’re entitled to your opinion. And people can point out why you’re wrong. But posting to make fun of people for being upset? That’s trolling, and puts your sincerity in question. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/94 "2024-10-26T02:13:41Z")
In case anyone is curious, Wikipedia has a [page listing endorsements by various newspapers and other media](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_media_endorsements_in_the_2024_United_States_presidential_election). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/95 "2024-10-26T02:17:43Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I mean when they say “Democracy dies in darkness” they don’t explicitly say that’s a bad thing It’s not. To them. “Them” meaning the plutocrats who control what the media ownership allows them to say. To slightly paraphrase David Frum (the sort of old-school conservative that you could have intelligent debates with), when the policies of right-wing neo-Nazis cannot bring them to power through the democratic process, they will not abandon their policies; they will abandon democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/96 "2024-10-26T02:41:01Z")
Hmmm…(this may not be reliable): > **[Donald Trump meets with Blue Origin execs the same day WaPo declines to...](https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/25/24279851/donald-trump-meets-with-blue-origin-execs-the-same-day-wapo-declines-to-endorse-a-presidential-candi)** > > Nothing to see here, I’m sure. Jeff Bezos, owner of Blue Origin and The Post, just really strongly felt like there didn’t need to be a presidential endorsement this time around, no reason. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/97 "2024-10-26T02:46:57Z")
Lol. Totally not a troll reply! You just have an awesome sense of humor of course! And cleverness! Its the cleverness that stands out so much and puts your contribution into the stratosphere of the wise, rational bystander. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/98 "2024-10-26T02:54:21Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I mean when they say “Democracy dies in darkness” they don’t explicitly say that’s a bad thing I cancelled my subscription today, and sent them a note saying democracy didn’t die in the darkness, it died in plain sight on the editorial page. Eh, fuck them. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/99 "2024-10-26T03:20:03Z")
> [@XOldiesJock](#): > > This was a gutless, cowardly move by Jeff Bezos, an affront to good journalism and to the legacy of what is still one of America’s great newspapers. Ben Bradlee is spinning in his grave. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210/100 "2024-10-26T03:55:20Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > I get what you are saying. I vacillate myself on whether I really think this is the case. Sometimes I think Trump is a real threat to our fundamental democratic structures, and then other parts of me admonish myself for thinking that, and I try to remind myself that this is a resilient country, having been through a civil war, an almost complete meltdown of our economic system, world wars, and threats of nuclear annihilation, and that our country will weather these times as we have weathered everything else. OK so the election of Trump may not lead to the end of the American experiment. The fact that this is even a question make him utterly unqualified to be president. Here have a bottle of strycnine, you seem like a pretty healthy guy I doubt you’ll die. Feel like taking a swig? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-washington-post-democracy-dies-with-us/1009210.md?page=6)