# The Watchmen (warning: Spoilers!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 18, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400 "2004-11-18T02:27:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SmHodge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SmHodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmHodge)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/1 "2004-11-18T02:27:02Z")
Okay, I’m pop-culturely inept: What is the deal about The Watchmen? My parents never heard of it, both of them having read a nice bit of American comics and all, but across the internet I’m hearing that is was as good as sliced bread or sex. What the hell was it about? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/2 "2004-11-18T02:56:49Z")
Back in the 1940s, a fad started for people to dress like comic book heroes and fight crime as “Mystery Men.” It was revived in the 1960s, boosted by the Government supported Dr. Manhatten, (who through an experiment gone horribly wrong has reality-altering powers) and the morally challanged Comedian. Public outrage led to vigilantism being outlawed, with surviving heroes retiring or going underground. Today (mid-1980s) someone is killing masked marvels, and the last of the group emerge from hiding to find out who and why. It is an extended musing on personal responsibility and obsession, a slam-bang action story, a well-thought-out alternate history, and the resolution is earth shattering. Written by Alan Moore. Arguably the most important graphic novel ever written. Find it; it is still in print and will be one of the best twenty dollars you have spent. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/3 "2004-11-18T02:57:56Z")
Why does this sound suspiciously like the plot of _The Incredibles_? _wonders about the movie’s sources_ ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/4 "2004-11-18T02:58:35Z")
Watchmen (not “The Watchmen”) is critically acclaimed as being the first “legitimate” comic book. It was written the the mid 80s ('86-'87?) by Alan Moore and it stars a cast of original characters based on unused characters from older books. It tells a story over 12 issues of murder, mystery, politics, morals, ethics, and one very, very distraught castaway. That’s really all I feel like I should tell. If you’re at all interested in comic books, you need to stop reading _about_ Watchmen and read it. Murphy’s Law says you’re about to start stumbling upon spoilers _real_ soon. If you don’t have the cash to shell out, most libraries carry the trade paperback. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/5 "2004-11-18T03:04:28Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Arguably the most important graphic novel ever written. Except that it wasn’t a graphic novel. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/6 "2004-11-18T03:04:34Z")
Well, for starters, they’re just “Watchmen”, not “The Watchmen.” Writer Alan Moore and artist Dave Gibbons created this 12-issue series set in October and November, 1985. Richard Nixon is into his fifth term, cars are electric, the U.S. is dominating international politics. [spoiler] Through a series of flashbacks and whatnot, the shistory is told: The first masked hero/vigilante, named “Hooded Justice” appeared in 1939 and kicked off a wave of costumed crimefighters, inclunding The Comedian, Nite Owl, The Silk Spectre, Captain Metropolis, etc. Though a number of them tried to team up, their extreme personalities really kept them from being effective as a group, and The Comedian’s attempt to rape Silk Spectre drove them apart further. After World War Two, interest in costumed heroes waned somewhat, until a nuclear accident in the early sixties destroyed and then recreated a scientist named Jon Ostermnan, giving him powers over matter and energy; the first actual ‘super’ hero. Given the gaudy name Doctor Manhattan, Osterman eventually intervened in and helped to win the Vietnam war, ensuring Richard Nixon’s political success (coupled with a repeal of the 22nd Amendment), and putting the Soviets on the defensive. By the mid eighties, Osterman’s growing detachment from humanity was becoming increasingly obvious. Further, American expansionism (including making Vietnam the 51st state) had pushed the Soviets into desperation, making nuclear war likely. Osterman eventually left Earth, prompting the Soviets to begin a rapid military expansion into Afghanistan, with eyes on south Asia. Anticipating this, one of the younger costumed heroes, named Ozymandias, had launched a complex plan in which at the moment of crisis, he would teleport a huge genetically-engineered creature into the heart of New York City. At the moment of its arrival, it would broadcast psychic waves of imagery designed to look alien (as well as killing about half the urban population). The plan was to convince Earth that the creature was the first in a potential wave of alien invaders, thus forcing unity. As the world unites, the only living witnesses to Ozymandias’ plan are newer younger versions of Nite Owl and Silk Spectre, who feel compelled into silence because the alternative (nuclear war) is worse, and Osterman, who has left Earth for good. A fourth witness, a vigilante named Rorschach, was kiled by Osterman to slience him. Throughout the series, Rorschach had been investigating the murder of The Comedian (killed by Ozymandias to silence him) and the entries in his personal journal reflect this. Before setting out with Nite Owl to Ozymandias’ Antarctic lair, and anticipating his own death, Rorschach mailed his journal to a right-wing publication called _The New Frontiersman_. In the final panel, a reporter debates which article from the “crank pile” (where the journal has been consigned) will be used as filler for the latest issue.[/spoiler] The title comes from the question “Who Watches the Watchmen”, i.e. who is monitoring those who are responsible for monitoring society. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/7 "2004-11-18T03:08:02Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Except that it wasn’t a graphic novel. Well, now it is. I still have all twelve issues in plastic bags in a safe place. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/8 "2004-11-18T03:15:07Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > it stars a cast of original characters based on unused characters from older books. Not particularly unused. The reason Moore had to make original characters is because the editors at DC wanted to bring the Charlton characters into the DCU. Not long after Watchmen came out, they made their first appearance in a DC book when Earth-4 (the Charlton universe) was destroyed in the Crisis. Blue Beetle (who became Nightowl), The Question (Rorschack), Captain Atom (Dr Manhattan), Nightshade (no particular resemblance to Silk Spectre, but assumed to be the character whose roll SS filled), Judo Master (No Watchmen counterpart) and Peacemaker (The Comedian) all appeared. Thunderbolt (Ozymandais) didn’t. Unlike the others who were made into Watchmen he also never became anyone of consequence in the DCU. Nor did Judo Master, actually. I suspect a connection between these 3 facts. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/9 "2004-11-18T03:25:37Z")
Good heavens, give the OP an easy way to purchase this title. It really is fantastic, and it’s available from Amazon: [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0930289234/104-7171992-0798346?v=glance](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0930289234/104-7171992-0798346?v=glance) It’s well worth your $13.96. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/10 "2004-11-18T03:27:33Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Blue Beetle (who became Nightowl) Ahh, he was in the Justice League and fought Doomsday before the Boyscout showed up, right? Learn something new every day. Bryan, maybe the second half of your synopsis should be boxed? Watchmen _is_ a mystery and all… ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/11 "2004-11-18T03:37:34Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Ahh, he was in the Justice League and fought Doomsday before the Boyscout showed up, right? Yeah, that’s him. One of my favourite characters in the DCU. And in Watchmen, actually. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/12 "2004-11-18T03:38:13Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Why does this sound suspiciously like the plot of _The Incredibles_? > > _wonders about the movie’s sources_ I think Brad Bird is a pretty big fan of comics and probably drew on Watchmen’s “Keene Act” for The Incredibles backstory. ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/13 "2004-11-18T04:51:22Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Well, now it is. > > I still have all twelve issues in plastic bags in a safe place. I have two sets. One never been read, and one read once. I also own two copies of the graphic novel. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/14 "2004-11-18T04:54:42Z")
I know it’s a stupid nit to pick, but the _Watchmen_ anthology is a trade paperback, not a graphic novel. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/15 "2004-11-18T05:33:50Z")
Watchmen is about as good as the form gets. And when you do read it, make sure that you read all the straight print sections in between the comic panels. They contain information that is vital to the full understanding of the story and the characters. I’ve known people who have skipped them, thinking them unimportant. Big mistake. As for graphic novel: unfortunately for purists, “graphic novel” has become the generic descriptor for all those trade paperbacks in the comics section at a Barnes & Noble. It no longer matters whether they were conceived as an independent novel-length story or comprise a dozen issues of six different comic titles. They’re all graphic novels now. Since Watchmen was conceived of as a single connected novel-length story that was told in twelve chapters that happened to be in published in individual pieces before being properly collected, I don’t see why even a purist would have any problem calling it a graphic novel but I’m no purist. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/16 "2004-11-18T06:29:56Z")
_Watchmen_ is a graphic novel. It was concieved from the first as a single long work with a definite resolution. How it was originally published is irrelevant. Many of Dicken’s novels were published in serial form, one chapter at a time in the newspaper, but they are nonetheless novels. Along with Frank Miller’s _The Dark Knight Returns_, (and a few others–Miller’s _Ronin_, Moore’s _The Killing Joke_, and _V for Vendetta_, all outstanding graphic novels), it showed that mainstream comics can be dark, mature, and serious and still be viable in the general market. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/17 "2004-11-18T06:42:52Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Why does this sound suspiciously like the plot of _The Incredibles_? Eh, it’s not as if the premise is _that_ original. Besides, both **Watchmen** and **The Incredibles** use it for different means. For **Watchmen,** the persecution/ban of the heroes is integral to the story. For **The Incredibles,** it’s merely a Macguffin to get the story started. ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/18 "2004-11-18T08:08:00Z")
I haven’t seen _The Incredibles_ nor do I know anything about it, but I can confirm that this would not be the first time a dang fine graphic novel has been the “inspiration” for a loosely related animated work – see the amazingly brilliant _Ronin_ as adapted for Cartoon Network’s _Samurai Jack_. Get _Watchmen_, then go buy a second copy in case you lose the first or read it tp pieces. It is a fine work. Aside from stellar (especially for a comic) characterization you may also notice a couple important things that were quite innovative: 1. there are very few (if any) sound effects and none of those drawn “wind” lines to indicate direction and magnitude of motion that have been common in comics for – basically forever. I didn’t notice this lack at first when I picked up the comic in the '80s, but the technique not only works well, it also allows you to focus on each panel as a distinct work of art (whether it is a flying vehicle rising eerily into the night sky, or an action/fight sequence). 2. the alternate world is VERY well crafted and few details are spared; at the end of each issue (or chapter I guess) is an appendix containing background information, ranging from pages of text discussing the strategic development and launch of a perfume, to a formal treatise on the inevitability of total disaster in the event of a nuclear war, with or without the godly intervention of one of the leading characters. You simply don’t get that much text or detail in most comics. This was IMO unquestionably DC’s finest work. Other of my favourites include _V for Vendetta_, _Blood: A Tale_, and the afore-mentioned _Ronin_. I’ve checked out newer acclaimed works like the _Sandman_ series, but really, though they may be good they are as insects compared to these older masterpieces (besides, they are total rip-offs, short “books” for high prices). Buy _Watchmen_ and tell all your friends. I can’t write enough praise about it. This is still the finest work in comic bookdom. It is to comics what _2001: A Space Odyssey_ and _Bladerunner_ are to sci-fi films. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/19 "2004-11-18T08:36:56Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Well, for starters, they’re just “Watchmen”, not "The Watchmen."The title comes from the question “Who Watches the Watchmen”, i.e. who is monitoring those who are responsible for monitoring society. A question originally framed by the Roman writer Juvenal in his Satires as “Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?” {But who is to guard the guards themselves?}; originally, actually a comment upon locking your wife up to prevent her infidelities, and setting guards to watch her: the assumption is that she will use her wiles to seduce them. However, the saying has grown to assume a political or social context: Moore’s translation, assuming it is his {and I haven’t been able to find another attribution}, is in this later context a very good one. Just thought you’d like to know… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400/20 "2004-11-18T13:13:25Z")
There are many threads about this work on the SDMB - bottom line: read it. It is wonderful. After that thread yesterday about Tears for Fears vs. the Beatles, I wonder if I should say “it is generally considered the best superhero comic series ever written.” (I have the DC/Graffiti leatherbound limited edition that came out when it was first released in trade paperback, with the appendices in back with character development sketches, etc…very cool.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-watchmen-warning-spoilers/275400.md?page=2)