# The way the Democratic establishment is treating Bernie supporters is a blunder.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [April 27, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263 "2016-04-27T16:50:31Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 14
### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/261 "2016-04-29T16:24:25Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> I wouldn’t take anything said on this board too deeply. The Straight Dope is Hillary country – old, white and cranky for the most part. They’re topnotch debaters but their views are often rather fixed.
Do you think you are coming off as any less old, white or cranky? Lol.
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### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/262 "2016-04-29T16:28:29Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Originally Posted by Evil Captor
> I wouldn’t take anything said on this board too deeply. The Straight Dope is Hillary country – old, white and cranky for the most part. They’re topnotch debaters but their views are often rather fixed.
I’m rather old, white and cranky, and I’m a fan of Bernie. I’m just equally happy with Hillary. It’s a little more complicated than that, of course. Sanders gets more love for more progressive positions and the appearance of being more authentic. Clinton gets a bump for breadth of experience, elect-ability, and what I perceive as an ability to get a little more accomplished.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/263 "2016-04-29T16:29:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> I wouldn’t take anything said on this board too deeply. The Straight Dope is Hillary country – old, white and cranky for the most part. They’re topnotch debaters but their views are often rather fixed.
Based on the voting demographics so far, “Bernie country” is a lot whiter than “Hillary country”. I’ll be happy to vote for either one.
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### Author:  [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/264 "2016-04-29T16:34:36Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> The mainstream media was DEFINITELY against Bernie. Why in the world would you think otherwise.
>
> And I think the Dems need their progressive element to be more active and more in control, but that doesn’t necessarily constitute being a Tea Party. The progressive base isn’t filled with blind, stupid hatred like the Tea Party base, just for starters. They want to oust the Dem centrists from power … I’m ALL for that.
To me it’s a time and place thing. I think the center is where I want any of my politicians to fall if I’m concerned about effective government. Right now, effective government is the most pressing political issue IMHO. There used to be this thing called compromise that seems to be in little supply in politics these days.
The problem as I see it is the democrats have allowed what is perceived as centrist has be planted firmly to the right of where center should be. That’s why I want a tack back to the left. I want us to start redefining the center and this isn’t going to be easy. It’s going to be even harder if we battle over every inch which is what a true centrist would inevitably do as they wouldn’t tack past their own comfort zone. We need to battle over miles because while we won’t get everything we want we will get more out of the battle.
Now, once the center is redefined I recognize that I won’t get everything I want but that’s kinda the point of compromise and I’m not so egotistical or smart enough to think that everything I believe must be the best way to solve issues.
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### Author:  [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/265 "2016-04-29T16:34:38Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> Yeah, the Republican Party got thoroughly fucked because they ignored the interests of a large portion of their base. And with the Dem base polling WELL to the left of the Dem leadership, gee … nice little Party you got there, be a SHAME if anything should happen to it.
If you think the base is white millennials, then sure. But where’s the evidence that Democrats as a whole are WELL to the left of their leadership?
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### Author:  [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/266 "2016-04-29T16:39:16Z")
I’m neither white nor old, but definitely cranky.
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### Author:  [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/267 "2016-04-29T16:40:15Z")
> [@Procrustus](#):
>
> I’m rather old, white and cranky, and I’m a fan of Bernie. I’m just equally happy with Hillary. It’s a little more complicated than that, of course. Sanders gets more love for more progressive positions and the appearance of being more authentic. Clinton gets a bump for breadth of experience, elect-ability, and what I perceive as an ability to get a little more accomplished.
I chose Bernie after taking one of those online position tests and found that my views matched him 98% of the time. To me this is stunning and I doubt that I’m ever going to find someone so closely aligned with my current thinking. I don’t think I had a choice who to support.
What is funny here is that Bernie Sanders is the textbook definition of old, white and cranky. Old, white and cranky is not always too bad a thing.
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### Author:  [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/268 "2016-04-29T16:41:57Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> The mainstream media was DEFINITELY against Bernie. Why in the world would you think otherwise.
I think otherwise because the media largely covered Sanders well out-of-proportion to his actual chance of winning, failed to cover most of his shortcomings, and focused on Clinton’s email scandal far out proportion to its actual meaning. Sanders got a fair shake from the Democratic party and the media. He is just too weak of a candidate and represents too sparse of an ideological population to have won.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/269 "2016-04-29T17:38:05Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> Do you think you are coming off as any less old, white or cranky? Lol.
I was HOPING to! 😃
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/270 "2016-04-29T17:39:06Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> @DSeid:
> Well Germany’s seems like a well thought out system to me. Don’t think you’d have to trash the Constitution to move a little towards more multiparty participation. Some ballot access changes. Some Congressional rules changes.
Their specific multi party system _seems_ well thought out to me as well, but again, still relatively untested comparatively.
And again, their system only works that well because it is a complete constitutional system set up that way. I see no reason to think that multi party is in and of itself any sort of greater good than two party and again see plenty of negative cautionary tales out there. And also again, I am satisfied enough with what we have as a proven stable representative democracy.
That said, sure, some specific suggestions for incremental changes come up I am open to considering each on their individual merits.
The aside in this thread was however the alleged intrinsic superiority of a multi party system. And what I see in the world are both functional and dysfunctional multi party systems with the devil in their details and specifics, in aggregate nothing clearly superior to what we have and some quite a bit not.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/271 "2016-04-29T17:46:07Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> The mainstream media was DEFINITELY against Bernie. Why in the world would you think otherwise. …
Because I _saw_ it very much _otherwise_. The mainstream media was very much into propping Sanders up as much as possible in order to create a horse race storyline that would keep people clicking and tuning in.
If you think that the business of the media is to do anything other than sell advertising time by being able to report the largest number of eyeball and earpans as possible for as long as possible then I would submit that you may be horribly naive.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/272 "2016-04-29T17:51:31Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> Oh, come on, all those votes counted in Hillary’s favor that had to be handed over to Bernie on the recount? And it ALWAYS worked that way, there were never “mistakes” made in Bernie’s favor. All those polling stations in Rhode Island that were closed to suppress the Bernie vote? (Bet you never thought you’d seen Dems suppressing the vote.) DWS’s games with the timing of the debates? That’s “riggiing” my friend, and it’s not a good thing.
The out of date and unfair caucus system, the only thing that gave Bernie a chance? Rigging- in Sanders favor.
Rhode island? Are you fucking kidding us?
[http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/04/22/3771913/rhode-island-primary-election/](http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/04/22/3771913/rhode-island-primary-election/)
“According to the Boston Globe, _Rhode Island routinely closes polling locations during presidential primaries_ “to keep costs low during an election that usually sees few voters.” …
_The precinct consolidations were announced back in January_, …” Italics mine. So, it’s _routine,_ and announced before Bernie was a serious candidate. There’s no fucking way this was done by the Dem power brokers to shush Bernie as no one had _any fucking idea that Bernie would be this popular back in January_. And Sanders could have won 100% of Rhode \*Fucking \*Islands huge 24 delegates and it would have made _no difference at all._ So, no, not “rigging”. Absolutely, 100% proven in the case of RI.
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### Author:  [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/273 "2016-04-29T17:56:18Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> Because I _saw_ it very much _otherwise_. The mainstream media was very much into propping Sanders up as much as possible in order to create a horse race storyline that would keep people clicking and tuning in.
>
> If you think that the business of the media is to do anything other than sell advertising time by being able to report the largest number of eyeball and earpans as possible for as long as possible then I would submit that you may be horribly naive.
I don’t think that the media was against Bernie but nor do I believe that they propped him up. They had other candidates to do this with and they tried with O’Mally. They jumped to Bernie after he was drawing huge crowds and the money started pouring in. Of course, they had to cover that because it was a story rather than them creating a story to prop up a narrative when they had the very real storyline going on with the republicans. They didn’t need to manufacture headlines; they got those for free.
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### Author:  [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/274 "2016-04-29T18:02:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> The out of date and unfair caucus system, the only thing that gave Bernie a chance? Rigging- in Sanders favor.
Yes, the net effect of the delegate assignment is in Sanders’ favor. His fraction of (non-super) delegates is greater than his fraction of the votes.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/275 "2016-04-29T18:23:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> … Rhode \*Fucking \*Islands …
You got that in the wrong place. The state’s legal name is Rhode Island and the Fucking Providence Plantations. I know that’s kind of long to type, but still. . . [/nitpick]
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/276 "2016-04-29T18:27:13Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> The aside in this thread was however the alleged intrinsic superiority of a multi party system. And what I see in the world are both functional and dysfunctional multi party systems with the devil in their details and specifics, in aggregate nothing clearly superior to what we have and some quite a bit not.
Well I think it’s almost a given that a multiparty system gives a greater voice to wider range of the population than the “big tent” two party idea while the latter makes a more stable sytem. So I guess it’s a personal preference call which one is intrinsically superior.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/277 "2016-04-29T18:29:14Z")
> [@Frank](#):
>
> You got that in the wrong place. The state’s legal name is Rhode Island and the Fucking Providence Plantations. I know that’s kind of long to type, but still. . . [/nitpick]
I concede, you are correct, sir!:smack:
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### Author:  [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/278 "2016-04-29T18:37:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> Yeah, the Republican Party got thoroughly fucked because they ignored the interests of a large portion of their base. And with the Dem base polling WELL to the left of the Dem leadership, gee … nice little Party you got there, be a SHAME if anything should happen to it.
How macho. Please–get as many progressives nominated as you can. I’ll bet you’ll get a lot of Democrats to vote for them. Even those of us who are not young white baristas. Keep campaigning–even on off years. And in state & local elections. Keep working.
Or cast your One Symbolic Vote for an unelectable presidential candidate & then go into hibernation for the next four years.
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### Author:  [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/279 "2016-04-29T19:34:07Z")
All I can think of is Christine O’Donnell and how the Tea Party threw away a safe GOP Senate seat away to force a Centrist off the ticket. Like I said, I hope the establishment Democratic party has more of a spine than the establishment GOP… but since when has the Democratic party ever had much of a spine?
My response to the threats of Tea Party-ism is form your own fucking party and don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out. If you think we can’t survive without you, put your money where your mouth is and try to prove it.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/280 "2016-04-29T21:53:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> At this point, yes, yes he is.
What is he spoiling? He won’t be on the November ballot, he won’t be making a third-party run, and HRC will win with or without his endorsement. The only thing he’s spoiling is the Establishment’s smug confidence in the party’s neoliberal consensus, and that needs spoiling.
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> Nader voters thought so too.
Nader voters were not working within the Democratic Party.
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