# The way the Democratic establishment is treating Bernie supporters is a blunder. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 27, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263 "2016-04-27T16:50:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NVME702-redux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a183cd/32.png) [@NVME702-redux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NVME702-redux)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/21 "2016-04-27T17:41:13Z")
Hang on- this is in response to the “why are they treated like idiot children” I don’t believe anyone should be treated like idiot children- but we need to consolidate. When you join the democratic party to promote your platform, you need to concede that there is an expectation of returning the favor, and some of the Bernie supporters are vehemently saying they wont. I’m not mocking you or your wishes to change- but I hope you understand that those kind of changes do not occur in one cycle. So now you’re going to stay home and not vote. Ok. I see how that works ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/22 "2016-04-27T17:41:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > By the way, I’d like to harken back to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19147828), in which **SenorBeef** asserts that the only possible reason that black Democrats overwhelmingly preferred Hillary Clinton could be that they were low information – refusing to accept the possibility that _maybe most black voters analyzed the issues and rhetoric and preferred Hillary’s approach_. > > That sounds pretty much exactly like what he’s complaining about in this thread. Are we going to re-hash that? I didn’t say low information was the only reason. I said that there’s a cultural meme that Clinton was the first black president, and the Clintons are very popular amongst black people. Even though they were enthusiastic supporters of various anti-crime bills that were used primarily to disproportionately blacks to “bring those people to heel” What I actually said was - amongst low information voters, name recognition is the dominant factor. Some of the responses I received to what I said were actually fairly racist - the idea was essentially that black people were sages that correctly figured out that Hillary was such a great candidate, and they weren’t fooled by Bernie like all these white kids. In any case, it seems unlikely to me that black voters come to a nearly unanimous decision based on each making an individually informed decision. You could argue that it makes sense that their bloc almost always votes democratic because the republicans cater to racists, and that’s pretty reasonable. But how much did Obama’s policy positions did they evaluate to overwhelmingly support him over Clinton? And how much came because he was black? And then subsequently, all that support rallied right to Clinton’s side, even though they’d all chosen Obama over her. Was that all because they were super-informed savvy voters that saw something that people of all the other races didn’t, or because there’s a perception out there, a cultural meme, that black people love/should love the Clintons? You mischaracterized what I said to attempt to try to snipe at me in this thread. My comments in that thread have basically nothing to do with the ones I made in this one, and constitute a hijack. Otherwise draw the connection between what I said then, and what I’m saying now, that’s so hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/23 "2016-04-27T17:42:48Z")
> [@NVME702-redux](#): > > Bernie decided to run as a Democrat- and from the beginning and from his actions- it appeared that it was to promote the issues that many people felt needed a national platform for recognition. Part of the decision to run as a Democrat, and to have the amenities of the party included a give and take- use of the democratic database of voters, participate in the democratic debates, have use of democratic funds- and of course- be able to say that you ARE A DEMOCRAT. > > So part of the give is campaigning down ticket and raising funds for them as well, which Bernie says he MIGHT do. Oh and guess what, if YOU don’t get picked- throw your support behind the person who did- which he now says he cant make anyone vote for her-true but your support could help… > . The Democratic party is a private entity, so why don’t you just make anyone who wants to join or run sign a contract agreeing to those requirements? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/24 "2016-04-27T17:43:03Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > No different than “Clintonistas” which gets tossed around regularly. Except that “bro” has negative connotations outside the context of politics. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/25 "2016-04-27T17:45:20Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > You mischaracterized what I said to attempt to try to snipe at me in this thread. My comments in that thread have basically nothing to do with the ones I made in this one, and constitute a hijack. Otherwise draw the connection between what I said then, and what I’m saying now, that’s so hypocritical. The connection is that you complain about the insults and disdain for Bernie supporters from the Hillary camp, while implicitly insulting and putting down the black voters who chose Hillary over Bernie. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/26 "2016-04-27T17:45:38Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Except that “bro” has negative connotations outside the context of politics. We’re really going to debate if it’s worse to call someone a “Clintonista” than a “Bernie Bro” and vice versa? :rolleyes: Well, you can debate it if you want. I think that’s just asinine: “I only called you a dog butt but you called ME an elephant butt and those are stinkier so you’re SO MEAN!!!” ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/27 "2016-04-27T17:45:49Z")
> [@NVME702-redux](#): > > Hang on- this is in response to the “why are they treated like idiot children” > I don’t believe anyone should be treated like idiot children- but we need to consolidate. When you join the democratic party to promote your platform, you need to concede that there is an expectation of returning the favor, and some of the Bernie supporters are vehemently saying they wont. I’m not mocking you or your wishes to change- but I hope you understand that those kind of changes do not occur in one cycle. > > So now you’re going to stay home and not vote. Ok. I see how that works There’s actually a pretty fairly reasonable point there, except by your last line you seem to be implying that if Bernie is allowed to run as a democrat, anyone who supported Bernie is obligated to them vote democrat, which doesn’t make any sense. In any case, it’s not as if Bernie has abused the democratic party. He’s been very soft on attacking Clinton and attacking the party in general. He’s run a campaign about policy issues and principles. He’s done the democratic party no wrong, and if anything, he’s energized the voters for them. They’re up for grabs, if they’re not told they’re idiotic children that need to get in line. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/28 "2016-04-27T17:46:53Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Ah, yes, they just need to “grow up”, because they’re idiot children, and they need “real reasons”, not whatever childish bullshit they think they’re voting for. > > Thank you for demonstrating my point in this very thread. There is no kinder way to describe any Obama supporter who has lived through the last seven years and came to the conclusions you described. And this is exactly why we shouldn’t be pandering to those voters, they will never be happy with reality because it will never match the magical candidate they made up in their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/29 "2016-04-27T17:47:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m sorry that some assholes were unkind to you. I’m hopeful that your choice for who to vote for (or whether or not to vote) will be based on which candidate would be better (or less damaging) for the country, and not based on the actions of some assholes who represent only a minority of support of any particular candidate. No one has been unkind to me personally. I don’t advertise who I support so no one attacks me personally. They rather attack the fact that I would support someones ideas that they don’t share and attempt to marginalize anyone with those ideas. No disrespect but I’ve spent the entirity of my adult life choosing which candidate would be better for the country. It’s time I choose what would be better for me and I choose to value my self respect and support my views which the Democratic party is not ready to take seriously at this time. If that changes, I’ll be back. It’s really refreshing that my vote can me something to me rather than fearing that I’m responsible for the fate of America and the civilized world if I vote wrong. If it’s really that bad you should have no problems cobbling together the votes to achieve the victory anyway and if the majority disagrees with you then it’s debatable that your way is truly that much better wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/30 "2016-04-27T17:49:07Z")
I love Bernie and I think he’s run a great campaign in most respects. I think he failed in a few things – most critically, in relating to black voters – my impression was that he tried to _tell_ black people what would work better for them, while Hillary tried to _listen_ to black voters to find out what would work better for them. You can write that off as campaign optics, but that’s politics and part of connecting with voters. I think you’re ( **SenorBeef** ) very, very wrong (as well as demonstrating a very poor understanding of politics in black communities) if you think preferring a candidate who _listened to you (or those like you)_ over the one who tried to _tell_ you what would work is somehow less intelligent of a choice then some other method of picking a candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/31 "2016-04-27T17:49:13Z")
No debate. I’m just pointing out the linguistic difference. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/32 "2016-04-27T17:49:36Z")
This just looks like more lumping and splitting to me. If a Clinton supporter says something mean, that represents Clinton, while a Sanders supporter saying something mean doesn’t speak for everyone. And vice versa. On this board, I think the Clinton supporters have been a little nastier (of course, this also reflects bias because I am prone to finding some of the Clinton supporters nasty no matter what they are doing). In other places, it’s been Sanders supporters (or at least claimed Sanders supporters. Some are indistinguishable from Rushbots) who are losing their goddamned minds. We tend to see the people we agree with as individuals and the people we disagree with as a unit. So, who is the establishment? Does it make sense to call me, as a mere Clinton supporter, the establishment and to tar the establishment with my words? It’s giving me a lot of power to say I speak for someone likely to be the next president. My post really will be my cite! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/33 "2016-04-27T17:51:15Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > No one has been unkind to me personally. I don’t advertise who I support so no one attacks me personally. They rather attack the fact that I would support someones ideas that they don’t share and attempt to marginalize anyone with those ideas. > > No disrespect but I’ve spent the entirity of my adult life choosing which candidate would be better for the country. It’s time I choose what would be better for me and I choose to value my self respect and support my views which the Democratic party is not ready to take seriously at this time. If that changes, I’ll be back. > > It’s really refreshing that my vote can me something to me rather than fearing that I’m responsible for the fate of America and the civilized world if I vote wrong. If it’s really that bad you should have no problems cobbling together the votes to achieve the victory anyway and if the majority disagrees with you then it’s debatable that your way is truly that much better wouldn’t you say? But why do you let the actions of some assholes reflect so poorly upon the Democratic party? Isn’t it possible that the party isn’t like this as a whole – that it was just some vocal assholes? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/34 "2016-04-27T17:51:36Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Except that “bro” has negative connotations outside the context of politics. It does? I thought it was just trendy, like “dude.” ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/35 "2016-04-27T17:53:57Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > No different than “Clintonistas” which gets tossed around regularly. I’m in favor of not using either but it’s hard for any one side to hand-wring and pretend that they are being uniquely maligned. > > That said, you’re certainly better off voting for the candidate you think will be best (be in in primary or general) than basing your decision off of a handful of asshole supporters\*. If it turned out that a child molesting axe-murderer was supporting a candidate I liked, it wouldn’t mean that I’m an “ally” of child molesting axe-murderers. > > \*[Edit: Meant generally and not intended to call **NVME702-redux** an asshole] I have never said that it’s any different than “Clintonistas” nor do I support that either. I don’t think that’s the way supposed allies should treat each other. It’s the Trump school of diplomacy. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/36 "2016-04-27T17:54:19Z")
Hillary and Bernie were both here in RI last weekend. Hillary was surrounded by every politician in the state, Bernie was surrounded by the people. That’s the difference between the campaigns, and that’s the mistake the establishment is making. The fight within the party has been about whether the establishment will choose the candidate or whether the people will. It’s been decided, and not in favor of the people. The Democratic party depends on the independent vote to support them, and so far they’ve given us the finger. Was that a mistake though? They wanted to win, they did. But that was just the semi-final, they can get back Sanders supporters if they want to, and that’s what we have to find out, do they want us? If they don’t then they won’t just lose the few Bernie fanatics that won’t vote for Hillary now, they probably would never have voted for Hillary to start with, but they’ll also lose the broader group that wants to see real change. Hillary has adopted change as part of her platform because of the success it brought Bernie, but her original policay, and actual policy is to maintain the status quo in the political process and serving as a backroom president placing the party’s lust for power ahead of the people. She better start lying her head off now or day by day watch her support erode outside of the diehard party base. ---
**Author:** ![NVME702-redux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a183cd/32.png) [@NVME702-redux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NVME702-redux)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/37 "2016-04-27T17:55:35Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > There’s actually a pretty fairly reasonable point there, except by your last line you seem to be implying that if Bernie is allowed to run as a democrat, anyone who supported Bernie is obligated to them vote democrat, which doesn’t make any sense. No- you are not required to vote for Hillary or anyone for that matter. But if you are going to rally for change, but then decide to stay home because it didn’t go your way…tell me how that doesn’t smack of childish pettiness. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/38 "2016-04-27T17:56:21Z")
More people supported Hillary – she’s gotten a lot more votes than Bernie. I love Bernie, but he failed to get greater support from “the people” than Hillary. He came close, but not close enough. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/39 "2016-04-27T17:56:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Hillary and Bernie were both here in RI last weekend. Hillary was surrounded by every politician in the state, Bernie was surrounded by the people. That’s the difference between the campaigns That politicians don’t want to hang out with Sanders’ losing campaign? You think Sanders was beating off all the endorsements with a rake? “No, don’t come near me… I need to be with the people”? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/40 "2016-04-27T17:58:31Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > You know, why would someone support a party that clearly mocks them and their views and expects them to take it and vote for them not because they respect their views and will defend them but rather because they’re better than the other guy? Democrats clearly aren’t interested in my ideas simply my vote come November. Well, they’re not getting it. If Sanders were to win, do you feel that Clinton supporters would have the same complaint? That they would have been mocked for their views and expected to take it? Because I think both sides have been mocked for their views. I know I have, and I’m not someone who has ever said I wouldn’t vote for Sanders. If we look at all primaries for all parties, are supporters of the losing candidates always mocked? I think that tends to be true. I think many people get into a mode of trash talking that they can find it hard to break back out of, and they overemphasize differences between candidates because to do otherwise makes the loyalty to the one they’ve chosen feel too shallow. If it’s six of one and a half dozen of the other, then the choice is basically a coin flip. We don’t want to think of our political decisions that way, so we say it’s zero of one and a dozen of the other instead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263.md?page=3)