I am fond of recalling that even though GD is the place for well-reasoned debate, it is also clearly billed as the designated place for witnessing. Conspiracy theories are just another form of witnessing.
Wellstone was coasting to victory and was the #1 Senate opponent of the war over Iraq’s oil. His vote against the war was not met with constituent disdain as expected, but widespread accolades - exposing the naked emperor that is the US’ war culture. A major thorn in the side of the Bushistas. The fact that he’s the second guy like that to go down in a plane - right before being elected - in consecutive election years - can fairly be passed off as one hootenanny of a coincidence. I suppose.
Scylla’s OP is a great example of the method the right has been using lately to attack the left. In the schoolyard we called it “No, you.”
The Republicans want to take away our civil liberties. “The Democrats want to take away our civil liberties!”
The Republicans used their power and connections to steal the 2000 election. “The Democrats are going to use massive voter fraud to steal the 2002 election! Just like they tried to do in 2000! We need tighter control authority at the polls and make sure everyone’s papers are in order!”
The Republican agenda takes its inspiration from a tiny minority of corporate oligarchs. “Democrats take all their marching orders from Barbra Streisand!”
A paramilitary black-ops team with orders from Washington killed Senator Wellstone. “Clinton and Kennedy killed Wellstone!”
David B: I read the entire OP before I posted my reply. I stand by it; the OP was a bullshit rant.
We are led to believe that straightshooting, steelyeyed Scylla, long suffering defender of Truth, is now reluctantly pointing out the Quite Obvious Fact that all of the threads questioning our President’s veracity regarding Iraq, corporate reform, the War on Terror®, etc. are simply instances of irresponsible innuendo and prevarication from us iggernit leftists, “bearing false witness” against our poor maligned Commander in Chief.
This OP is nothing more than a cleverly delivered ad hominem attack on Scylla’s debate opponents in the threads he’s mentioned. It is more than a broad brush; it’s a veritable paint cannon. Coming from any poster, the OP would be contemptible. Coming from someone who clearly does not count stupidity or gullibility among his [numerous] character flaws, the OP is beneath contempt.
elucidator’s post, of course, made these points with more style and gentleness than I can muster, but I hope my explanation will correct the assumption that my cry of “bullshit” is a result of misreading the OP. I completely understand the thesis, and find it not only inapt and insulting when applied to the actual debates regarding those subjects, and not only a risible tactic of distraction and evasion, but also a rather despicable and cowardly smear against a whole group of Dopers who’ve had the temerity to disagree with the OP regarding Bush.
Wait, no wait! Scylla is once again right as rain!
It’s true! You liberal conspiracy theorists better keep your noses clean; make sure you don’t do anything like produce hateful videos detailing the presidents execution style hits, or accuse the president of having kids with a black hooker, none of that!
Me and Scylla, we’re watching you! Remember to watch what you say and watch what you do. Remember that this is a time of war, and those who dissent give aid and succor to our enemies.
Remember, we must be better than Klintoon, whose termagant wife ran the travel office like a personal fiefdom! We must not wag the dog like he did when he lobbed cruise missiles at the aspirin factory! We will never confuse politics and war, the way Klintoon did!
Remember, the track record of the conspiracy theorists? Was Nixon embroiled in a cover-up? Only peripherally! Was Anthrax being made in America? Was there really a conspiracy against Klintoon at the highest and lowest levels? C’mon! Did Republicans actually subvert the judicial system to get at the bounce-back kid? Next you’ll be saying we own the media! Did they buy and rig the election? That’s crazy talk!
You have to look at these nuts’ track record – disastrous --discredited – then look at Scylla’s! Is he not an avatar of calm, impartial, selfless justice? I think you’ll agree with me when I say that comparing Scylla’s track record to the conspiracists is an outrage! An outrage to the very fabric of debate! And if you had any honor, you would stop it.
So, Scylla, can we make a deal? The Democrats have to absorb all the half-cocked “Bush Knew”, “It’s all about the oil!” and other nonsensical OPs as part of our load to carry, and the Republicans get december. If you’re going to lump all Dems in with the fools who post the OPs you’re ranting against, can they lump all Republicans in with december? Enquiring minds want to know!
I’m not lumping. I’m just saying that there is a radical fringe conspiracy element in the Democratic Party. Just because nuts fall from all the trees does not mean that the tree is full of nuts, to flog the metaphor. The DU site I linked to has those who claim that the conspiracy theory of the Wellstone crash is nutty also.
I just want to see evidence before I assume a murder plot. At least a veteran of WWII was positive bullets whizzed over his head from the grassy knoll.
Ace, well researched and cited. But, I still don’t see how this proves that the small plane (notoriously dangerous devices) was intentionally brought down. If the FAA - or anyone for that matter - finds evidence, I’ll listen.
Thank you for the praise. It was intended to prove nothing except that the concern has merit and Scylla’s dismissal of it does not; and that we should investigate. If anyone would like to supply me with the research, I’d be happy to go through it.
From a purely polemical standpoint, it is much better IMO to just say “the democrats killed Wellstone because when a politician dies during a heated race, his fill-in always wins via the sympathy vote” than going on and on about the alleged specifics (who did the specifics). Were someone to post your rant, I’d think they’re nutty. Were someone to simply pose the question “was wellstone murdered to ensure a democrat victory at the polls?” then it would be a much more valid question, and a much more valid debate would therefore ensue.
As to the merits of the argument itself, planes typically crash by either negligence (res ispa loquitur inference) or by Islamic intervention. As there were no reported muslims on Wellstone’s plane, it leaves a strong presumption that it was just negligence on someone’s part (pilot error, mechanical problem, etc). Such a strong presumption really helps cover up an intentional downing of the plane on the part of the Democrats. All they have to do is point out that there were no muslims reportedly involved and they’re scot-free, and win the senate seat by sympathy vote. Replacement candidate’s qualifications are not a factor. “A man died, I must do the right thing and vote for his replacement.”
andros, I’m familiar with the English language, thank you very much. Dictionaries represent usage, and hence bad usage will get into the dictionaries. Theft connotes depriving someone of something. An unlicensed copy of software/music/media/etc. deprives neither the licensee nor the copyright holder of the work in question.
The war of nomenclature seeks to define terms in an advantageous manner. By referring to people who have unlicensed copies as “pirates”, the MPAA/RIAA/etc. cast themselves as the good guys vs. the bad guys. I would bet that the majority of americans have at least one unlicensed copy of some IP, and yet there is no wholesale slaughter of people on the open seas. Nor are people being deprived of property.
Call a spade a spade, please. The issues of IP are complicated, and trivializing them (not to mention victims of real piracy) only clouds the issue.