# The west coast as a desert island **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 23, 2006, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543 "2006-03-23T03:46:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/21 "2006-03-24T14:46:12Z")
It’s been many years since I was there, but I recall that Muir woods was lousy with mule deer. In fact, just about every park I’ve been to out West has had plenty of mule deer. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/22 "2006-03-24T14:51:42Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > I have often pondered what the world would be like after something like the epidemic in [The Stand](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108941/). For several years most of us would have little worry about food and such due to canned stuff. Given a little inspiration, someone might even be able to get enough people together to harvest some crops and find a way to get a cannery of sorts up and running. A small town with a functional cannery or food processing plant could easily become an agricultural hub and be able to feed thousands of people year round by preserving food products. Actually, the Mormons get together and run canneries already. And they store enough food for years. And it’s not like “harvesting some crops” is such a difficult process; my tomato seedlings are just about ready to go into the ground and they’ll hopefully produce _way_ more than I can eat fresh. I’m also growing beans, cucumbers, lots of herbs, beets, fennel, salad greens, radishes, maybe some peppers, watermelons, maybe some more stuff. I’ve got a raised vegetable bed that’s 12x4. There’s a blog somewhere in suburban California (maybe Pasadena?) where they’re trying to live independantly, and they pull, no joke, 3 tons of food out of the dirt on their normal suburban lot. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/23 "2006-03-24T14:54:49Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > How long will it have been empty of people? In pre-columbian days, people around here (the East Bay) could just waltz over to the beach and pick up as many shellfish as they wish to eat. I’m pretty sure that’s true of Southern California too. When I was at UCSD in the late 1970s, there were guys in the dorm who routinely put on their SCUBA gear, walked into the ocean, and harvested abalone and lobster. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/24 "2006-03-24T15:38:03Z")
Um… are we assuming that all of the livestock has magically disappeared as well? My limited time in California taught me counter to my stereotypes of that there’s a lot of beef and dairy raised in the state, and not so incredibly far from the coast. This is in addition to the peas, strawberries, greens, almonds… not all oranges and shellfish. And, um, feral dog… I should think that if the people disappeared tomorrow someone with enough skill to hunt dog and process acorns could eat a whole lot better than that just by going to local farms and ranches. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/25 "2006-03-24T16:01:54Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > I’m pretty sure they would turn on smaller domestic critters like cats and other sutff like rats, squirrels, etc. But at that point they are feral. By definition. (If you don’t accept that definition, we’re talking at cross-purposes.) > [@](#): > > Remeber there are going to be at least a certain percentage of dogs that survive for another 3-5 years who were pets and any surviving humans are probably going to take in a few as pets. So domestic dogs will probably survive right along with us, an expansion of the existing symbiotic relationship between dogs and humans would be even more important under the circumstances. The scenario posits that the American west coast is devoid of human life, at least to a fairly thorough searching. Thus any pet dogs that can’t become feral would die off. > [@](#): > > For at least the next few years there will be tons of harvestable food just have to sort through the weeds for it. I know that. I meant food sitting around loose in grocery stores and refrigerators and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/26 "2006-03-24T17:22:47Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I’m pretty sure that’s true of Southern California too. When I was at UCSD in the late 1970s, there were guys in the dorm who routinely put on their SCUBA gear, walked into the ocean, and harvested abalone and lobster. Note that harvesting abalone with scuba gear is now illegal. (Not that this makes any difference in a survival scenerio, but just in case someone wanted to practice.) You can harvest abalone in some areas with a permit by freediving, which is what you’d have to do anyway in your post-apocalypse _The Quiet Earth_-ish scenerio. Back to the OP, if you were going to find yourself bereft of the benefits of civilization, the Coast of California is a prime choice for survival (which is why it was such a popular destination for farming and agriculture in the late 19th and early 20th centuries). Tide pools provide easy pickings for protein, as already noted, wildlife is abundant, and nutritional flora is widely available in the year-round Mediterranean climate. A healthy, capable person should find it nearly trivial to support themselves in such an environment; it’s certainly far easier than surviving in the Scandinavian near-Arctic or the Australian Outback. As for the consumption of carnivores argument, I’ll note that many cultures, including the Mongolians, the Koreans, and the Inuit kept dogs as food animals. There’s nothing particularly unnatural about it, any they’ll certainly provide more accessible nutrition than the disease-infested flying rats known as pigeons. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/27 "2006-03-24T17:42:21Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > But at that point they are feral. By definition. (If you don’t accept that definition, we’re talking at cross-purposes.) OK, my poor terminology…consider me corrected. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/28 "2006-03-24T19:01:37Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > For your vitamin C needs I’d journey down to Orange County. I wouldn’t. Orange County is border to border houses and strip malls. Hardly an orange anywhere. Otherwise, the California coast is rich with foods. As others have mentioned, there are plenty of animals, fish, shellfish and birds ripe for the harvesting. Fishing nets are simple to make from scratch, if you can’t be bothered to ite together a bunch of volleyball nets. Fishing spears are rather basic. There are rather large herds of cattle around, as well as chicken ranches. Fresh water is no problem at all outside of the major deserts. The only reason there is a water problem in California is that there are too many people in the wrong areas. Vegetable items are quite widespread, even on the coast. No problem surviving here. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/29 "2006-03-24T19:45:08Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The only reason there is a water problem in California is that there are too many people in the wrong areas. But I _like_ L.A. 😉 Stranger ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/30 "2006-03-24T21:21:53Z")
BTW, not all acorns are unpalatable raw. The tannin content varies quite a bit from species to species, and the species with less tannin are perfectly OK eaten like nuts. I’ve eaten them, and thought they were quite good. The high tannin ones are so bitter as to be inedible, at least raw. The Golden field guide “Trees of North America” book divides the oaks into two groups, the red oaks and white oaks, commenting that the white oak acorns are not bitter. Species from both groups exist in CA, as do Chinkapins, which produce edible acorns, and Tanoaks, which produce incredibly tannin-loaded acorns. Those trees are not true oaks. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/31 "2006-03-24T21:44:40Z")
If I were in such a situation, I would certainly go looking for dogs, not to hunt them, but to hunt _with_ them. A dog, once you befriended it, would serve you a lot better than just 50 pounds of meat or so. Of course, not all dogs would be friendly or befriendable, but given that they’re recently decended from domesticated dogs, and not directly from wild wolf stock, there’d surely be a few well-tempermented ones around to take up with. But as long as the scenario started in the springtime, I’d think that a survivalist could make it pretty easily anywhere in the contiguous US. In California, with the nearly year-round growing seasons, it’d be a cakewalk. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/32 "2006-03-24T23:25:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If I were in such a situation, I would certainly go looking for dogs, not to hunt them, but to hunt _with_ them. A dog, once you befriended it, would serve you a lot better than just 50 pounds of meat or so. Of course, not all dogs would be friendly or befriendable, but given that they’re recently decended from domesticated dogs, and not directly from wild wolf stock, there’d surely be a few well-tempermented ones around to take up with. Methinks **Chronos** has been reading up on his Harlan Ellison. 😉 Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/33 "2006-03-24T23:58:26Z")
While I have read some of Ellison’s stuff, I don’t recall anything in particular involving domestication of dogs… The closest I can come up with is a story starring a werewolf. Care to elucidate? My comment there comes not from fictional inspiration, but just from being a dog person. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/34 "2006-03-25T00:18:49Z")
[A Boy and His Dog](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072730/), from a story by Harlan Ellison. Ellison’s ending was better. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/35 "2006-03-25T01:28:44Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > [A Boy and His Dog](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072730/), from a story by Harlan Ellison. > Ellison’s ending was better. 😃 It’s been a long time since I’ve seen the film, but IIRC the ending to the movie and the story are more or less the same, to wit:[spoiler]Vic escapes from the underground vault with Quilla June, only to find Blood starving and near death…so he sacrifices Quilla June to feed Blood. A boy loves his dog.[/spoiler] Stranger ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/36 "2006-03-25T01:43:08Z")
Nope. The movie ends the other way. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/37 "2006-03-25T03:05:19Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Nope. The movie ends the other way. ☹ I must have blocked it from my mind; the story was much better anyway. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/38 "2006-03-27T12:50:15Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Nope. The movie ends the other way. ☹ No it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/39 "2006-03-27T13:11:42Z")
> [@Whifton\_Polekitty](#): > > I have no recollection as to where I came across the quote, but “mankind is never more that 2 meals away from barbarism”. > > Or something along those lines. The British intelligence agency MI5 reportedly said:[ > [@](#): > > MI5’s maxim is that society is “four meals away from anarchy”. In other words, the security agency believes that Britain could be quickly reduced to large-scale disorder, including looting and rioting in the event of a catastrophe that stops the supply of food. ]([The Times & The Sunday Times](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1302571,00.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543/40 "2006-03-27T15:34:37Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Bakersfeild, CA, post apocalypse capital of the US 😃 We used a long panning shot of Oildale for a scene of nuclear destruction in a music video we shot in Bakersfield. (_The Final Conflict_, Burning Image) 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-west-coast-as-a-desert-island/349543.md?page=3)