# The Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show 2011 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 14, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262 "2011-02-14T01:00:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/1 "2011-02-14T01:00:58Z")
(I’ve done this before, and I’m doing it again.) The dog show is coming! The dog show is coming! I don’t own any dogs, but I love watching the dog show. It’s the Olympics, the Oscars, the Miss America Pageant of the dog show world. It will air live on Feb. 14th and 15th on the USA Network at 8/7c. The very best of the best of every recognized breed: the Westie, the German shepherd, the Pomeranian, the Akita, the Papillon, the greyhound, the Bichon Frise, the Newfoundland, the Chihuahua, the Siberian husky, the standard poodle, the toy collie, the border terrier. Handsome dogs, goofy dogs, elegant dogs, powerful dogs, foofy dogs, lovable dogs. See the snooty owners and breeders! The totally focused handlers! The judges, with the power of God in their decisions! Drama! Excitement! Pathos! Best in Breed! Best in Group! Best in Show! Man, I can’t help myself. I get sucked in every year. I love it, I love it. Official link [here](http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/). ---
**Author:** ![mittu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/2 "2011-02-14T01:18:03Z")
I don’t want to piss on your cornflakes but doesn’t the selective breeding that goes on dampen your enthusiasm any? I’m referring to the type of selective breeding that leads to serious health conditions in the dogs, such as a shortening of the snout that may bring the dog closer to the ‘ideal’ for that breed but also means the dog can’t breathe properly. I like dogs and it’s good to see fine examples but I wouldn’t enjoy it if I thought the dog was suffering in order to attain the ‘ideal’ form. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/3 "2011-02-14T01:25:18Z")
Yes, I think that stuff is stupid. German Shepherds with bad backs. And I’ve always hated the ear and tail docking. But I think the show itself, and what it is meant to represent (the very best of the breed), is very exciting. ---
**Author:** ![PapSett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@PapSett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PapSett)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/4 "2011-02-14T01:32:36Z")
_sigh_ People that don’t understand dog shows ALWAYS pile on with this inane argument. Reputable breeders are doing everything humanly possible to breed structurally sound, healthy dogs. Yes, some breeds have become more ‘artificial’ but by far the majority were bred for FUNCTION and the really good ones can still perform that function. Please… could we have a discussion about dog shows and show dogs without dreging up half truths about how _sickly_ show dogs are? I no longer have cable TV so I have to watch Westminster on line, but it was always the highlight of my TV veiwing year. I have had show Gordon Setters since 1982 and there is no excitement in the world like watching an immaculately groomed and trained dog that is a beautiful example of the breed strutting around the ring. Give a cheer for the Gordon Setter on Tuesday night for me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shadez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Shadez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shadez)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/5 "2011-02-14T01:51:17Z")
I was always amazed to see how fast they are able to remove the ice in time for the dog show, with the Rangers playing tonight. Apparently the dogs would try to dig to reach the ice if they didn’t. I hope we have some papillons entered this year. ---
**Author:** ![PapSett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@PapSett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PapSett)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/6 "2011-02-14T01:56:22Z")
There will only be one of each breed shown since they are showing the group judging. There should be a Papillon in the toy group! I have 2 papillons, too, wonderful little dogs! ---
**Author:** ![mittu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/7 "2011-02-14T04:36:01Z")
> [@PapSett](#): > > _sigh_ > > People that don’t understand dog shows ALWAYS pile on with this inane argument. > > Reputable breeders are doing everything humanly possible to breed structurally sound, healthy dogs. Yes, some breeds have become more ‘artificial’ but by far the majority were bred for FUNCTION and the really good ones can still perform that function. > > Please… could we have a discussion about dog shows and show dogs without dreging up half truths about how _sickly_ show dogs are? I don’t want to be accused of thread-shitting so this is the last I will say on the subject. I am sure that lots of dog breeders don’t support and even actively campaign against such practices but I know that in the UK Crufts (the largest dog show in the world) used to be shown on the BBC and was well supported until a TV show exposing how widespread mistreatment of the animals was aired. Since then it hasn’t been shown and has lost most of its major sponsorship. It isn’t an inane argument or filled with half truths, when the largest dog show in the world not only allows but encourages such practices (and eventually admits to it) it is no small concern. Anyways, like I said I won’t post any further in the thread I just wanted to refute the idea that this is just a couple of breeders giving everyone else a bad name. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/8 "2011-02-14T04:45:14Z")
> [@mittu](#): > > I don’t want to be accused of thread-shitting so this is the last I will say on the subject. I am sure that lots of dog breeders don’t support and even actively campaign against such practices but I know that in the UK Crufts (the largest dog show in the world) used to be shown on the BBC and was well supported until a TV show exposing how widespread mistreatment of the animals was aired. Since then it hasn’t been shown and has lost most of its major sponsorship. It isn’t an inane argument or filled with half truths, when the largest dog show in the world not only allows but encourages such practices (and eventually admits to it) it is no small concern. > > Anyways, like I said I won’t post any further in the thread I just wanted to refute the idea that this is just a couple of breeders giving everyone else a bad name. You shouldn’t believe everything PETA tells you… ---
**Author:** ![PapSett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@PapSett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PapSett)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/9 "2011-02-14T05:30:33Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You shouldn’t believe everything PETA tells you… Thank you. That BBC ‘documentary’ was nothing but propoganda that showed only one side of the issue. It wanted people to gasp and point fingers so showed ONLY the bad guys. They didn’t want their sensational ‘story’ sullied by the breeders that are doing it RIGHT. Yes, there _are_ unscrupulous breeders out there, but they are by far the minority. Show breeders are the ones that do it right, by and large, the ones that do health testing and temeperament testing and put their heart and soul into breeding healthy, happy dogs. Give me a well-bred dog over a puppy mill or BYB dog any day. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/10 "2011-02-14T10:12:17Z")
I like to see the dogs’ expressions and body language. Some of them are just pure competitors. I remember one time there was a toy terrier or something who held himself like Michael Jordan going for a dunk. ---
**Author:** ![Shadez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Shadez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shadez)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/11 "2011-02-14T11:38:01Z")
> [@PapSett](#): > > There will only be one of each breed shown since they are showing the group judging. There should be a Papillon in the toy group! I have 2 papillons, too, wonderful little dogs! Thanks, this isn’t a show that I am completely familiar with – I just like seeing cute dogs. But I did remember that a Papillon won a few years back – that turned out to be in 1999! My parents have had two Papillons. One is still alive (black and white, way too big boned to be a show dog. She wiggles her butt instead of her tail usually) and the other one (brown and white) passed away over the previous summer, but lived to 17 or so. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/12 "2011-02-14T12:33:00Z")
> [@PapSett](#): > > Thank you. That BBC ‘documentary’ was nothing but propoganda that showed only one side of the issue. It wanted people to gasp and point fingers so showed ONLY the bad guys. They didn’t want their sensational ‘story’ sullied by the breeders that are doing it RIGHT. > > Yes, there _are_ unscrupulous breeders out there, but they are by far the minority. Show breeders are the ones that do it right, by and large, the ones that do health testing and temeperament testing and put their heart and soul into breeding healthy, happy dogs. > > Give me a well-bred dog over a puppy mill or BYB dog any day. All irrelevant. You get what you measure, the standards you set determine behaviours. By having exaggerated physical characteristics as part of the breed standards you ensure those will be favoured. So when the owners chance of “winning” becomes everything, the dog’s welfare runs the risk of being secondary. ---
**Author:** ![PapSett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@PapSett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PapSett)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/13 "2011-02-14T14:38:58Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > All irrelevant. > > You get what you measure, the standards you set determine behaviours. > By having exaggerated physical characteristics as part of the breed standards you ensure those will be favoured. So when the owners chance of “winning” becomes everything, the dog’s welfare runs the risk of being secondary. :rolleyes: I’m not going to argue the point with someone who refuses to open their eyes. 29 years of experience with show dogs tells me all I need to know. That’s HANDS ON experience, not somebody told somebody who told somebody who told me, and I watched a BBC mockumentary… Just go on believing the propaganda and I’ll go on knowing the truth. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/14 "2011-02-14T14:43:56Z")
> [@PapSett](#): > > :rolleyes: I’m not going to argue the point with someone who refuses to open their eyes. 29 years of experience with show dogs tells me all I need to know. That’s HANDS ON experience, not somebody told somebody who told somebody who told me, and I watched a BBC mockumentary… > > Just go on believing the propaganda and I’ll go on knowing the truth. > > Have a nice day. Try reading what I said instead of rolling your eyes. Or try arguing against my points if you can. Breed standards drive breeders to select for those characteristics, true or false? And the documentary was perfectly sound you just don’t like the conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/15 "2011-02-15T00:24:25Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Try reading what I said instead of rolling your eyes. Or try arguing against my points if you can. > > Breed standards drive breeders to select for those characteristics, true or false? > > And the documentary was perfectly sound you just don’t like the conclusions. Any documentary that tries to claim that a _whole breed_ consists of dogs whose brains are too big for their skulls is not “perfectly sound”. ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/16 "2011-02-15T02:10:17Z")
Both chihuahuas are very cute! I don’t know that I like the dogs who seem to have no noses. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/17 "2011-02-15T06:42:33Z")
I didn’t know this before but when I was watching the show tonight and they did the story on the new breed the Leonberger, I realized that I knew that dog! Chewee the leonberger! His owner and I walked our dogs together in a St Patrick’s Day parade last year, he’s a really beautiful dog and he’s also _huge_! ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/18 "2011-02-15T11:17:41Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Any documentary that tries to claim that a _whole breed_ consists of dogs whose brains are too big for their skulls is not “perfectly sound”. Good job it didn’t try to claim that then. Have you seen the documentary? Try watching it again. [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O0l0f50AAk&feature=related) Let me give a verbatim quote instead. > [@](#): > > “The welfare and quality of life of many pedigree dogs is seriously compromised by established breeding practices for appearance, driven primarily by the rules and requirements of competitive dog showing and pedigree dog registration.” Care to guess which anti-dog figure said that? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/19 "2011-02-15T13:00:46Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I didn’t know this before but when I was watching the show tonight and they did the story on the new breed the Leonberger, I realized that I knew that dog! Chewee the leonberger! His owner and I walked our dogs together in a St Patrick’s Day parade last year, he’s a really beautiful dog and he’s also _huge_! I also didn’t expect to see Vito Spatafore during the dog show. For that matter I didn’t think I was going to see Mary Carillo do “Annie.” And now I can’t unsee it. Most of my favorites are going tonight, but I liked seeing the Shar-Pei win. And I find it heartening in general when they pick the larger dogs. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262/20 "2011-02-15T13:04:20Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Good job it didn’t try to claim that then. Have you seen the documentary? > Try watching it again. [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O0l0f50AAk&feature=related) > > Let me give a verbatim quote instead. > > Care to guess which anti-dog figure said that? This thread is about a particular event. If you want to debate dog breeding in general, please start a new thread. Thanks, **twickster** , MPSIMS mod [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-westminster-kennel-club-dog-show-2011/571262.md?page=2)