Buffy only gets good in Season two. I wouldn’t judge that show based on the first season.
You can watch it on hulu for free.
Buffy, overall, is the best series in the history of American television. Over seven seasons it continued to grow deeper and stronger from season to season. This means, of course, that Season One was the worst season. When I recommend Buffy to people, I almost always suggest they start with Season Three. They’ll eventually become hooked enough to go back and watch Season One, but overall, omgzebras, you’re not wrong in rejecting Season One. Having invested the time, however, I still suggest you go a little further. Skip ahead a couple seasons and try it again. You can watch it for free on Hulu.
You and me both, kid.
I agree with virtually everything you said, and add that *Angel *was the most **epic **of all of Whedon’s series, with the most sweeping plots and complex themes. In many ways it is the DS9 to Buffy’s TNG.
I think Angel is the series where Joss Whedon really mastered his craft. Buffy showed a huge amount of talent, but was pretty clearly a journeyman effort. Angel started off that way, but matured into a much stronger work than Buffy. The payoff to all of this was Firefly, where Joss was finally able to shed the need for a season of “finding the show’s voice.” It had a very clear, well defined vision from the first episode (whether you use Joss’s counting, or Fox’s to define “first episode”) which is why I voted for it in the poll.
It was definitely epic. Instead of having seasonal arcs like BtVS, Angel had a series arc that was hinted at in the middle of S1 (Parting Gifts) and really got rolling with the final ep of the 1st season, To Shanshu in LA. I don’t think every single element was plotted out 4 seasons in advance, but it’s clear they were laying the groundwork early for all of the later developments. Just today I was thinking about Are You Now or Have You Ever Been (the second ep of S2) and realized that so much of it foreshadowed Angel’s emotional and mental battles that season. His conversation with the Paranoia demon actually mirrors his conversation with Holland Manners later. In both cases, Angel’s first instinct is right, but the villain subtly manipulates Angel by appealing to his own innate insecurities and self-doubt, turning Angel completely around and putting him on the wrong path. That they even allowed the hero of the show to be wrong is amazing–that they did it in such a subtle, deft way, perfectly in line with the theme of the series and the character of Angel makes me appreciate and love the show all the more. That sort of move was definitely not possible on BtVS, and as a result BtVS was much less complex and dark (though it still had its complex and dark moments).
Should we include Alien 4, the crew of the Betty was the inspiration for Firefly, was it not?
Firefly is great and late Buffy stunk even though Spike was pretty cool. Still, Buffy simply has more meat. If Firefly had lasted longer, it might have won out, but early Buffy was great stuff. Early Buffy is every bit as good as Firefly.
Just wanted to corrent you - it’s not the Hellmouth, it’s the presence of a certain annoying blonde.
Buffy is wonderful, but it’s a story about growing up, and I was already all growed up when it began airing. On Buffy, everything is gonna be okay. There is loss, but they’re young and the world is full of shiny possibilities. Ultimately, it’s sort of childishly optimistic. That’s not a bad thing, it’s just a matter of taste. (Not judgey, just observey. ;))
Firefly is great, but 13 episodes just can’t compete with 100+ for room in my heart.
Angel is my favorite. Angel is about being a grown up, about facing the rest of your life knowing that it’s NOT going to be an endless array of shiny possibilities, and loss is searing and life-changing, and everything won’t be okay, but you’ll do the best you can and get through it. On Angel, there is happiness, but it’s a pit stop, not a destination. On Angel, there is no destination, you just keep going 'til you die.
I was pretty indifferent towards Angel on Buffy, until I watched Angel, and NOW I can’t bear him on Buffy. The Angel we know from his show is most assuredly not a suitable boyfriend for a sixteen year old girl, which only makes sense, what with him being a 200 year old vampire, and in retrospect it makes their entire relationship not only icky, but completely incredible, in the truest sense of that word.
I voted for Firefly because it is my Favorite, not the most influential, not even necessarily the best. If there was a poll for Whedon’s best work, I might vote differently. But for this poll, I love me some Firefly.
I like Firefly a lot. I wouldn’t say I loved it, though. I am another one who just couldn’t get to liking Buffy. I think DianaG has at least part of it; it’s a show about growing up. All of their little trials and tribulations bored the ever lovin’ piss out of me and I couldn’t even get past the first season. Yes, I know, “it gets better in the second season”. Fine, but when you get so severely turned off from the first season it’s hard to make yourself go back. Perhaps I’ll try again in the future.
I haven’t seen any others. Right now I have watched Firefly and Buffy and liked one and pretty much hated the other. I don’t really feel like trying anything else with that kind of ratio!
Paprika, are you ENTIRELY sure you’re not me? Please double-check.
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Firefly
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Angel, especially seasons 4 and 5.
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Buffy(series)
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Everything else, though Dollhouse may improve enough to make it on my mental list.
I’m not sure how comfortable I feel referring to Angel as a Whedon series. Wasn’t David Greenwalt primarily in charge creatively and production-wise after the first season?
Well, it starts out with Whedon characters, and more or less adheres to a Whedonesque vision, so I think you’ve got to consider it a Whedon series. That said, yeah, Joss was pretty hands-off with Angel I think, and David Greenwalt and Tim Minear were the real driving forces.
Toy Story. 
Actually, I’m new to the whole Whedon thing. Dollhouse is my fist go. I tried to get into Firefly and couldn’t, and vampires just aren’t my thing.
Dr. Horrible is awesome, but too fleeting to be considered anything but a highly entertaining sketch.
I think you’re both talking about the same thing.
ZING!
Seriously though, I agree.
The Buffy movie is the only thing he is responsible for that I actually enjoyed.
Are you serious? I try to pretend that godawful piece of shit isn’t even part of the canon.