# The Wheel of Time: TV series discussion (open spoilers; comparison to the books allowed) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, amazon-prime\ **Created:** [November 19, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636 "2021-11-19T18:24:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/341 "2023-09-30T23:48:06Z")
Spoiler-boxing because of outside-the-show statements from the writers: The claim is that season 3 will follow book 4 fairly closely, so presumably that’s when that will happen. Books 2 and 3 are being combined because they basically have the same overall arc… heroes separated, travails, Rand reluctant to embrace his destiny, everyone reunites, big fight, Rand defeats Ishy. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/342 "2023-10-07T01:04:35Z")
Well, season 2 has come to an end. Some (spoiler-filled) thoughts: -Overall, a huge improvement on season 1, although certainly not flawless. Not yet really “great” -One thing that became particularly clear in this episode is that they are not trying to tell exactly-the-same-story-as-close-as-possible-but-making-compromises-when-necessary. There’s no reason that the restrictions of the medium, or their budget, or visual storytelling, would have prevented Egwene from being rescued the same way she was in the books. They even had that all set up, with Nynaeve, Elayne and a captured Sul’dam. Instead, they’re making what are clearly intentional choices to deviate the story within the larger framework. And, for the most part, I like it. It means that, even as a book reader, I am never quite sure what is going to happen. It makes it more exciting to watch. And, honestly, a few of their changes I think are (heresy!) even better than the original. For instance, the interaction between Perrin and the Bornhalds sets up the ongoing Perrin-vs-whitecloaks situation far better than in the book. That said… it does very slightly rub me the wrong way. Do you guys think you’re better writers than RJ? Because, odds are, you aren’t. -Some highlights of season 2: -Pretty much everything about Elayne -Egwene’s damane storyline. Renna was excellent -Pretty much everything involving the Forsaken. Ishy and Lanfear have both been top notch -Lliandrin -Aviendha -Mat in episode 8, once he stopped moping and started doing things -Nynaeve’s accepted test -Some lowlights: -Basically everything with Moiraine and Lan. Oh, they separated for stupid reasons. Oh, they got back together. Yawn. -Inconsistency in power. For instance, Moiraine blowing up an entire fleet of ships from a mile off is by a pretty big margin the biggest single bit of one power usage we’ve seen in the entire series, and it was entirely unremarked on. How could those Damane on the ship even see what they were doing? Who can shield who? Etc. -Inconsistency in geography. Everyone is just wherever they need to be whenever they need to be there. Not saying I want to spend a lot of time watching people walk across the continent, but it certainly didn’t make sense that Aviendha and Perrin ended up exactly where Bain and Chiad were -Lots of things seemed rushed. Did anyone but Mat even seem the slightest bit startled that Rand was still alive? Lots of moments needed room to breathe, but that space was taken up by the tedious Moiraine/Lan stuff -I agree with many other commenters that while most of the buildup at the top of the tower in the finale was excellent (although, now that I think about it, what happened to the catapaults?), the final bit, with Rand stabbing Ishy and maybe killing him, was rushed and anti-climactic. I think it had to be either (a) more dramatic and more OP-showdown-y, or (b) more clear that Ishy realized his plan has failed, Rand wasn’t going to turn, and he accepted yet another death. I mean, it kind of seems like (b) was happening, but it wasn’t very well told But, overall, a huge improvement over S1. S1: 2.5 stars out of 5. S2: 3.75/5 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/343 "2023-10-07T03:30:22Z")
I, too, have enjoyed Season 2 much more than Season 1 (and Season 1 was ok). My issues with this last episode is they kind of had to toss a lot in to one episode to force the story forward. It was too much in an hour. Some fights were reduced to shaky cam and quick-cuts for “action” which was lame. The series has usually had good production values but they slipped a little here in several ways (especially the writing). Also, Lanfear getting caught-out by Moghedien was a bit much. Moghedien was the weakest of the Forsaken except in the dream world where she was absolute tops. No way could she best Lanfear in the real world…ever (Lanfear is probably second only to Ishamael and that is a close call). Yet Lanfear seemed to easily get caught here. And Ishy just popped all the Forsaken out and we learn about that with one line? All that said, I am very much looking forward to Season 3. I wish they did more than eight episodes. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/344 "2023-10-07T05:06:51Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Also, Lanfear getting caught-out by Moghedien was a bit much. Moghedien was the weakest of the Forsaken except in the dream world where she was absolute tops. No way could she best Lanfear in the real world…ever (Lanfear is probably second only to Ishamael and that is a close call). Yet Lanfear seemed to easily get caught here. > [@](#): > > This strikes me as 100% book-kosher. There are lots of scenes in the books where a weaker channeler shields a stronger channeler, often without the stronger channeler even realizing they’re shielded (which I’ve never quite understood). Siuan right before the coup. Nynaeve shielded by some black sisters (can’t remember which ones) while searching for the bowl of the winds. > > It’s never really fully explored, but the implication is certainly that if one channeler gets the jump on another, they can shield them before the other can react. And Lanfear was clearly caught off guard there, whereas Moggy knew exactly what was happening. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/345 "2023-10-08T21:49:49Z")
I thought the finale was the best episode of the entire series so far, but I found overall the second season was only OK. It had high highs, but also some extended boring storylines and stretches. That finale, however, was terrific even though I feel like it could have been two parts. We had Egwene deal with her slave-owner and go on to create a shield and fight our primary antagonist. It was a lot and had what I call “soap opera arrivals” where characters just kept coming around the corner just in time to be helpful. Despite flaws, I loved it. I hope this is the end for Ishamael. Otherwise, it loses its impact. I guess he could return when the Wheel goes around again, but I hope this is the end for him in this rotation, so to speak. Much better than Lord of the Rings: The Ring of Power. Much. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2023, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/346 "2023-10-09T02:03:20Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But my husband and i just stumbled upon this, and wonder if it might be fun. Neither of us has read the books, and i don’t want to read the entire spoilery thread. I haven’t read the books and I have enjoyed the first two seasons; every episode so far has made me eager to see the next one (and there are lots of TV series that fail that simple test). I’m a little confused by how far apart the various locations are, but since everyone moves at the speed of plot it doesn’t really matter. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/347 "2023-10-09T20:51:00Z")
I enjoyed the last episode a lot. Especially that Egwene didn’t need rescuing (although why the a’dam she picked up didn’t register as a weapon for her, I don’t know) The costumes continued to be my favourite part of the show, though (that’s not a bad thing) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/348 "2023-10-09T20:54:50Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > (although why the a’dam she picked up didn’t register as a weapon for her, I don’t know) Is it supposed to? I thought her special ability was just being really strong and also being able to split her weaves many times more than most others could do. Also, (really not sure about this) I thought she was pretty good in the dream world. I think she is a very good healer too but Nynaeve is better if she can get her mojo on. Is it Elayne or Egwene who can figure out what a ter’angreal can do (the a’dam are ter’angreal)? I forget. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/349 "2023-10-10T05:22:54Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Is it supposed to? A mere water jug did, when she intended to use it to harm her _sul’dam_. She certainly picked up the _a’dam_ with the intent to harm Renna. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/350 "2023-10-10T14:04:30Z")
Maybe it prevents direct harm instead of indirect potential harm. It’s like taping a magical “kick me!” sign to her, which is merely a piece of paper until some other passersby then kick her. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/351 "2023-10-10T16:18:17Z")
I still have a few episodes to go but the Seanchan’s American accents reminded me that RJ had intended them to sound southern or Texan IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/352 "2023-10-10T18:46:18Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Maybe it prevents direct harm instead of indirect potential harm. It’s like taping a magical “kick me!” sign to her, which is merely a piece of paper until some other passersby then kick her. I’ve seen several discussions of this on reddit (where, btw, there’s a small but very vocal contingent of people who HATE HATE HATE the show beyond all reason, with their own subreddit and everything. Now I don’t know for a FACT that they’re all just racists, but…). What I think is the most convincing is that the Seanchan themselves don’t think the A’dam is a weapon. They think it’s a tool. If you pick up a dog collar intending to put it on a dog, your mental state is certainly distinct from the mental state of someone picking up a stick intending to hit the dog. You could debate a bit more about whether Egwene agrees with that position or not, or whether the A’dam has enough low-level-sentience to have internalized that idea, or whether the fact that the A’dam “wants to be on a woman” factors in; but I do think it actually makes sense in context. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/353 "2023-10-10T21:09:07Z")
I thought it was pretty dumb, as it clearly violated the internal consistency. How was Egwene, with her collar on, able to harm her sul’dam (lifting and choking her with the power), but the sul’dam was not able to do the same? The dream wold is such a needed part of the series, but I can’t imagine them incorporating it, nor the towers with the lizardfolk in them. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/354 "2023-10-10T21:57:59Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > I thought it was pretty dumb, as it clearly violated the internal consistency. How was Egwene, with her collar on, able to harm her sul’dam (lifting and choking her with the power), but the sul’dam was not able to do the same? Eh… once they have both collared each other, all bets are kind of off. But it basically seemed to imply that any pain either of them felt, the other also felt. But Egwene, being a bad-ass boss bitch, was able to tolerate it while Renna tapped out. (Should it have gone into a feedback loop where they both instantly experienced maximum pain and died? I mean, we don’t really know enough about how it works to say that that’s what SHOULD have happened.) Basically, “both have a’damed each other” is so not covered in the books that I don’t mind it acting in an oddball fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/355 "2023-10-11T03:31:02Z")
I just finished the last episode, and it was great. We are also still in the parts of the books I’ve actually read, and I appreciate the plot condensation… man do those books wander around a lot. And somehow Matt’s story feels less dreary than it did when I read it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/356 "2023-10-11T08:12:05Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > The dream wold is such a needed part of the series, but I can’t imagine them incorporating it But they already have. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/357 "2023-10-11T12:29:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > But they already have. Yes, a little, but like the rest of the series there is so much more to it than what they can conceivably convey. It should be interesting to see what they do with it, but I worry that so much has to be left out of the story in order to tell it in this stupid 8-episode-per-book (or per 1 - 2 books) format. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2023, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/358 "2023-10-18T23:18:36Z")
I finally finished. Looks like they’ve cut the number of Forsaken from 13 to 8. At this point in the books, I think we’d only seen four. I’m assuming Aginor and Balthamel are out. I don’t recall what names we’ve heard thus far beyond the faces we’ve seen. I think there was one scene where Moghedien and “the boys” were mentioned, suggesting they may have cut the other three women. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/359 "2023-10-23T01:11:55Z")
There’s a scene in S1 where we see statuettes of the Forsaken, and there’s one that a lot of people are convinced represents Semhirage, although I don’t recall precisely why. I’d also be shocked if they didn’t go for a fairly even gender split, given the showrunners’ clearly progressive bent. Quite possible that they just haven’t decided yet, so wrote the dialog to leave things open. We know we’re going to have Moggy at the end of this season? We know we’ll have at least two other male forsaken, ok, “Moggy and the boys” it is. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636/360 "2023-10-23T22:49:30Z")
Apparently Sammael was mentioned in the show already. I missed that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wheel-of-time-tv-series-discussion-open-spoilers-comparison-to-the-books-allowed/954636.md?page=19)