The Wheel of Time: TV series discussion (open spoilers; comparison to the books allowed)

The original seems kinda white, so I was hoping for more diversity. But a complete spread of diversity in one isolated small village? Pretty much impossible.

Yeah, I didn’t get the bit about the bite either.

Through the Pharaoh’s daughter (identified as Queen Bithia in the Midrash), the child was adopted as a foundling from the Nile river and grew up with the Egyptian royal family.

The Jordan books have a interesting history. The first book was publish with a price of on $1, significantly cheaper than a PB that size would normally be. It was given away free at SF conventions.

IIRC, it was planned as two trilogies; but the publisher told Jordan he had such a hit, they would publish more, so Jordan started dragging out the plot and action until it was what? 14 books? I couldn’t read it past book 8.

Sorry, Galadriel is hardly minor or token, nor is Éowyn. However yes, the 9 Walkers are all male- which is fairly realistic in a medieval setting. But to modern readers, I admit, more strong women would be better, which is why I am glad Jackson made Arwen a bigger part.

Eh, 8 minutes and 18 minutes of screen time respectively don’t really elevate them out of “minor character” status.

What they did may have been important to furthering the plot, but they certainly did not take up much real estate in the books nor the movie in doing it.

15 minutes of screen time.

Galadriel is exactly who I was thinking when I said minor and token, Eowyn is a little more fleshed out but still a very very small character in the story.

That was meant to be “sympathetic characters”, and I fixed it in my post above. But you seem to have answered my question despite the typo. People who are trying to do what they think is the right thing for their people/kingdom/world are decently likely to be sympathetic.

Oh hell, Galadriel is a power, she’s not a human character. She’s less a human character than Tom Bombadil. (Legolas, Elrond, and Gimli are all “human characters”) Eowen is a human character, and a decent one. But she’s pretty much the only female character in the book.

I love the Lord of the Rings. But I love it despite it having no women in it.

I think its literally the opposite on this point, WoT is like LOTR in it’s clear black and white delineation. GoT was way on the other side of the scale with each side having good and bad people, other than the white walkers who were more of a force of nature than actual characters.

For the record, Moses isn’t the farm boy destined to be king; he’s the prophet who achieves enlightenment late in life. David is the farm boy destined to be king.

Apparently Brandon Sanderson was lobbying hard for Perrin to instead accidentally kill his mentor, Master Luhan… same potential emotional weight, gut less of a fraught issue. I’m basically on board with all the changes, but that’s certainly the one that I hope will really get well justified down the line.

Two issues people have been grousing about:
-On the question of whether the DR could be reborn as a woman, what the showrunner said in a reddit AMA is that the dragon could not have been reborn as a woman, BUT the current time Aes Sedai were not at all confident in their interpretation/translation of 3,000-year-old prophecies. So Moiraine was misinformed. Which, to me, fits 100% perfectly into the themes of WoT.
-As for the racial diversity of the TR, it’s pretty clear they’re a little less isolated in the show than in the books. I’m perfectly happy with some combination of “Ancient Manetheren was a cultural hub, so had people from all over Randland, and that shows in their descendants, with an ongoing sprinkling of outsiders” along with “come the f*** on, people, it’s a show being made in 2021, and also, who gives a f***?”

Do you have a source for this? I’ve only seen so far “supposedly” and “apparently”, and the closest thing I’ve seen from Sanderson himself was months ago when he said he had “issues” with the story changes made, but also said he would not elaborate any further than that.

He posted his thoughts on episodes 1 and 2 on reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/qxt9h5/some_thoughts_from_brandon_episode_one/
https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/qy2r52/some_thoughts_from_brandon_episode_two/

From the first episode post:

Biggest thing he and I disagreed on was Perrin’s wife. I realize that there is a good opportunity here for Perrin to be shown with rage issues, and to be afraid of the potential beast inside of him. I liked that idea, but didn’t like it being a wife for multiple reasons. First off, it feels a lot like the disposable wife trope (AKA Woman in the Fridge.) Beyond that, I think the trauma of having killed your wife is so huge, the story this is telling can’t realistically deal with it in a way that is responsible. Perrin killing his wife then going off on an adventure really bothers me, even still. I have faith that the writers won’t treat it lightly, but still. That kind of trauma, dealt with realistically and responsibly, is really difficult for an adventure series to deal with.

I suggested instead that he kill Master Luhhhan. As much as I hate to do Luhhan dirty like that, I think the idea Rafe and the team had here is a good one for accelerating Perrin’s plot. Accidentally killing your master steps the trauma back a little, but gives the same motivations and hesitance. One thing I don’t want this WoT adaptation to try to do is lean into being a tonal Game of Thrones replacement–IE, I don’t want to lean into the “Grimdark” ideas. Killing Perrin’s wife felt edgy just to be edgy.

That makes sense. But then, Sanderson is an eminently sensible writer.

“In between writing well-crafted novels across multiple story universes and doing some show production, here, let me post to Reddit and my blog and respond to questions on both.” He makes Stephen King look unprolific and lazy.

Wow, episode 4 was great. If you gave up before the end of episode 3 give it another chance they are picking up the pace nicely and the story is starting to make sense.

I still don’t love everything they are doing but it’s at least starting to be an interesting and exciting story. The characters are still a bit flat and they aren’t doing much to develop them. I’m sure that’s coming since they still have basically done nothing with Perrin or Rand.

If anything the pace is a little too fast imo.

I don’t see how they have a choice. There is no way this show is going 14 seasons or even 11 if they skip over the slog. I’ve read the producer is aiming at 8. With 8 episodes this season they need to cover 150 pages per episode to stay on track.

There are some clearly evil things, like the dark one or the forsaken.

But what about Whitecloaks? Are they evil? Are the Aes Sedai good? What about Logain, good or evil?

Then you have other entities like the Seanchan that can’t really be pinned down on a morality line.

And even some of the forsaken, as you get into their backstories, are less evil and more corrupted by good intentions.

IIRC, eventually all of those you mention are aligned to “good” or “evil”. I think the main difference from a morality standpoint between ASOIAF and the Wheel of Time book series is that in the former, the moral shades of gray remain throughout, while in the latter, all the major characters and groups eventually clearly align, in some way, with the good guys or the bad guys.

That’s true. After all, there is a Last Battle, and just about everyone is on one side or the other.

(Although I’d struggle to ever define the Seanchan as “good”, what with the slavery and the women in dog collars and all. At best, they’re a necessary evil).

Thanks!