# The "When Will Cam Newton Give the Heisman Back" Pool **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 12, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890 "2010-12-12T15:44:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/21 "2011-01-07T16:46:38Z")
> [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > Six months prior to January, 2010 nobody knew if Cam Newton’s signature on a letter of intent was going to be worth 50 cents. No one ever knows if anyone’s signature is going to be worth anything. Every time a player takes money (either illegitimately through a booster or legitimately through an NFL team), it’s a gamble. Newton was good enough to sign at Florida, good enough to win the back-up job over Brantley… it’s eminently plausible that a booster with more money than sense wanted to throw some cash at a better version of Vince Young, even if he was unproven. > [@](#): > > The Reggie Bush case was an institutional investigation…This one didn’t take nearly as long as an institutional investigation, it’s already over. Right, the investigation in late 2010 was very rapid. But once Newton goes into the draft, the investigation that I feel will inevitably surface will involve that super slow arm of the NCAA. So that’s why I said I’d admit to being wrong after a few years. > [@](#): > > Why would someone write his name in magic marker on property he knew was stolen, then toss it out a window with name clearly visible? That’s pretty simple. He wrote his name on it so no one would inadvertently take it from him, or so he could try to track it down/keep an eye out for it if it was stolen from him in turn. He tossed it out the window because he knew it was stolen and getting it out of his possession was (to him) the best of his otherwise shitty options. > [@](#): > > Panic is the only explanation. Panic might explain why he threw it out the window, but it in no way proves that he had no knowledge of buying stolen property. > [@](#): > > Also, in the area of Atlanta where Cam Newton grew up trusting the police is not common. He did his punishment for that and hopefully is smarter now. That’s a pretty good point there. But nevertheless, to me the Occam’s Razor explanation is he knew that it was stolen from the time he purchased it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/22 "2011-01-08T14:23:25Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > Never. Reggie Bush gave back his Heisman only after demonstrable violations from which he benefited. Nothing of the sort has been demonstrated in the Newton case. The only problem is, how do collect on “never”? Nicely put, **Mince**. For a somewhat more lengthy discussion on Mince’s point, here’s a link to a Tony Barnhart article in Thursday’s _Atlanta Journal Constitution_ [http://blogs.ajc.com/barnhart-college-football/2011/01/06/cam-newton-terrelle-pryor-rulings-are-completely-different/](http://blogs.ajc.com/barnhart-college-football/2011/01/06/cam-newton-terrelle-pryor-rulings-are-completely-different/) As to when to collect on “never”, I’m calling it April 15, tax day, a good day to pocket some extra winnings. If by April 15th Auburn has not received a Preliminary Letter of Inquiry from the NCAA, or if by April 15 no person directly involved in the case has alleged Auburn and/or Cam Newton did anything wrong, or if by that time, some previously unknown fact has not emerged, I’ll do what the NCAA has already done. That’s call this issue closed. Mince and I will collect our Big Ticket winnings from the SDMB and stop for a beer on our way to pay the tax collector. (And no, April 15 not unreasonably soon. A PLoI is the first step prior to starting an institutional investigation. Next comes a Letter of Inquiry. They do that preliminary letter in a hurry.) ---
**Author:** ![TheFifthYear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@TheFifthYear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFifthYear)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/23 "2011-01-08T15:43:41Z")
April 15th is either 1)laughably soon or 2) by those conditions, you’ve lost the bet since the NCAA inquiry is ongoing now. It isn’t over, it doesn’t have to be reopened or anything like that. On April 15, the NCAA will still be conducting its investigation into what happened with Cam’s recruitment. I suggested 10 years in the OP, but would also suggest that we use the Reggie Bush case as precedent…Reggie won the Heisman in 2005 and gave it back in 2010 after the NCAA ruled that he had accepted improper benefits. So the only precedent we have to the Newton situation is a 5 year gap between acceptance of the award and an NCAA finding of wrongdoing and the recipient then giving back the award. There’s no reason to think the Newton case will take any less time. By the way, here’s the latest on the investigation. The NCAA is still interviewing people to try to find the money. Not much new substance to this particular article, but this is a long way from over. [http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Cameron-Newtons-fathers-church-subject-of-NCAA-questions-010107](http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Cameron-Newtons-fathers-church-subject-of-NCAA-questions-010107) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/24 "2011-01-09T20:22:04Z")
> [@TheFifthYear](#): > > By the way, here’s the latest on the investigation. The NCAA is still interviewing people to try to find the money. Not much new substance to this particular article, but this is a long way from over. I’m not clicking on the link because I won’t take the chance of increasing this sleezeball’s hits, but I’m betting your author is Thayer Evans. Apparently he’s decided Auburn will be the hill on which his career in journalism dies. Since his failed assassination attempt on Newton’s character while trying to push his personal favorite for the Heisman award, he’s negatively reported on Auburn’s recruitment of South Carolina’s freshman running back Marcus Lattimore. Lattimore’s mother quickly denied quotes Evans attributed to her, Lattimore himself made some comments that made it clear that Evans was lying and Evans took his article down before more people could call his hand. Yesterday Evans wrote a typical “bait and switch” article implying (but not really claiming) wrongdoing in Auburn’s current recruiting of O-Line prospect Greg Robinson. I strongly suspect that his innuendo in that story will soon be debunked as well I’d rather believe these guys, they had to eat a lot of crow about Cam Newton: Sports Illustrated writer Lars Anderson on December 2nd. “Sources inside the NCAA say the Cam Newton case is closed. It’s over, done, dead. People need to move on.” ESPN writer Joe Schad on December 3rd: “The NCAA is happy with the Cam Newton investigation. The case is closed and the files are put away. It’s over” Both of those were on radio interviews, so I don’t have a link. Thayer Evans became quite the laughing stock around Auburn in early December when he wasted a week hanging around on campus trying to see if Cam Newton was actually attending classes. Several students caught him lurking behind bushes and so forth and took pictures on their cell phones. The precedents for the Cam Newton case are: A.J. Greene, Georgia: Sold jersey to agent in the summer of 2010. Declared ineligible by the NCAA and had eligibility reinstated _on the condition_ that he paid the amount of money he received for the jersey to a charity and sat out four games. Marcel Darious, Alabama: Accepted airplane tickets to and from Miami, and hotel accommodations in Miami while there. Summer of 2010. Declared ineligible by the NCAA and reinstated \* on the condidion\* that he pay the value of these items to a charity and sit out two games. So Cam Newton was: Declared ineligible by the NCAA because his father discussed money with Mississippi State alumni Kenny Rogers. Reinstated immediately _without condition._ The NCAA investigated the Cam Newton case from July until early December, which is much longer that the above two cases. Nothing was found and it’s over. The Reggie Bush investigation was institutional in nature and to compare that to Cam Newton’s eligibility investigation is apples to oranges. It’s over now and has been over since the NCAA’s announcement in early December, but I’ll delay declaring victory in this thread until April 15th just to let the buzzards circle awhile longer. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/25 "2011-04-16T04:57:23Z")
> [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > Nicely put, **Mince**. For a somewhat more lengthy discussion on Mince’s point, here’s a link to a Tony Barnhart article in Thursday’s _Atlanta Journal Constitution_ > > [http://blogs.ajc.com/barnhart-college-football/2011/01/06/cam-newton-terrelle-pryor-rulings-are-completely-different/](http://blogs.ajc.com/barnhart-college-football/2011/01/06/cam-newton-terrelle-pryor-rulings-are-completely-different/) > > As to when to collect on “never”, I’m calling it April 15, tax day, a good day to pocket some extra winnings. > > \*\*If by April 15th Auburn has not received a Preliminary Letter of Inquiry from the NCAA, or if by April 15 no person directly involved in the case has alleged Auburn and/or Cam Newton did anything wrong, or if by that time, some previously unknown fact has not emerged, I’ll do what the NCAA has already done. That’s call this issue closed. \*\* > Mince and I will collect our Big Ticket winnings from the SDMB and stop for a beer on our way to pay the tax collector. > > (And no, April 15 not unreasonably soon. A PLoI is the first step prior to starting an institutional investigation. Next comes a Letter of Inquiry. They do that preliminary letter in a hurry.) In accordance with the above bolded paragraph, I declare…VICTORY! Again, there is no similarity between the Cam Newton situation and the Reggie Bush case. Cam’s father _discussed_ money with representatives from Mississippi State, a school that Cam did not sign with or play for. Bush _accepted_ extra benefits from representatives of USC, a school he did play for. By the time the NCAA declared Newton “eligible without condition” in early December, they had been investigating for five months. They were fully aware of the discussions in Mississippi. They had been to the Newton home multiple times and been voluntarily given access to all family, church and business records. That investigation followed six months of investigation by the Auburn compliance office and the SEC office. When the NCAA made that statement in December, the deal was done. Cam Newton will not be giving his Heisman trophy back. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/26 "2011-10-13T03:23:54Z")
Cam Newton will not be giving his Heisman back, so what do we winners collect? Link to NCAA’s letter clearing Cam Newton and Auburn University of any wrong doing: [[link]](http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/aub/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/2011-12/misc_non_event/NCAAInvestigationletter.pdf) For those who don’t want to click a link or prefer not to read a two-page letter, there’s this brief statement by NCAA spokesperson Stacey Osburn on the Newton investigation: _“We’ve done all we can do. There’s nothing there.”_ As a number of us said from the start, where there’s smoke with no evidence, there’s some unscrupulous wanna’ be journalist that needs a few more hits on his website. He’s blowing the smoke. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/27 "2011-10-13T06:09:56Z")
Boy, McGregor _et al._ did such good a job on the laundering, might as well give them an extra trophy for it. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/28 "2011-10-13T13:25:32Z")
14 months ago, practically no one (aside from hardcore SEC enthusiasts) had EVER heard of CAM NEWTON. He was a 5-Star recruit that went to Florida and Urban Meyer. He got into some trouble at UF, and was released from the team. If Urban Meyer thought that Cam Newton was a legit Heisman candidate, there is absolutely no way that they leave the UF umbrella and in particular another SEC school. We all know how unscrupulous Florida (and the SEC) are ‘alleged’ to be. Florida let this kid go, he was damaged goods. If Auburn (or Miss State) boosters were predisposed to give money to potential football players, why would they give to Cam Newton? ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/29 "2011-10-13T13:38:55Z")
Because 14 months ago no one really gave a shit about Auburn an now they have a National Championship and a Heisman winner to tout to recruits? That is what boosters pay for, ultimately. Remember that in between Florida and Auburn he led Binn college to a National Junior Championship. That is what caused Auburn to go after him. So, he was more then a Florida reject that Auburn stumbled into. He was a proven winner at a lower level and a former 5-star recruit. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/30 "2011-10-13T15:06:23Z")
Look, I’m an Alabama fan. I generally despise Auburn (as a football program. I have a number of professional academic associations at Auburn.) But if there’s nothing there, there’s nothing there. Innocent until proven guilty. If no guilt is proven, then Cam and AU are innocent. Let it go. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/31 "2011-10-13T15:19:08Z")
And we all know that Binn [sic] College is a hotbed of Heisman Trophy winners. He didn’t even get first or 2nd team all-american in JUCO ranks in 2009, he was an honorable mention. FWIW, It is **Blinn** College. Not Binn college. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/32 "2011-10-13T15:34:32Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > And we all know that Binn [sic] College is a hotbed of Heisman Trophy winners. He didn’t even get first or 2nd team all-american in JUCO ranks in 2009, he was an honorable mention. > FWIW, It is **Blinn** College. Not Binn college. Cam Newton went to Blinndergarten? I did not know that. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/33 "2011-10-14T06:09:25Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Boy, McGregor _et al._ did such good a job on the laundering, might as well give them an extra trophy for it. I don’t know anything about this sport. But I do know you are very clearly leaning into Conspiracy Theory thinking. There’s no proof, therefore it happened. They just must’ve hidden it really well. In other words, your belief in this subject is unfalsifiable. That’s nice, but it also makes it irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/34 "2012-03-15T15:03:36Z")
> [@TheFifthYear](#): > > Last night, Cam Newton won the Heisman despite being engulfed in controversy regarding the violations that occurred while he was being recruiting by Auburn and Mississippi State. > > Like Reggie Bush before him, it’s only a matter of time before the Heisman is either revoked by the DAC or he gives it back. When will the details of his pay-for-play scheme become known? > > Or maybe the won’t; some are convinced that surely Cam had _no idea_ that his father was soliciting a pay-for-play scheme and that Cam (with no history of legal malfeasance or cheating :dubious:) went to Auburn (a school with no history of recruiting violations ever :dubious::dubious:) simply because it was the best fit for him as a scholar-athlete. :rolleyes: > > So, it’s time to place our bets. Closest without going over wins. If he hasn’t given it back in 10 years, we’ll declare the Newton-loyalists the winners. > > **I’ll take March 15, 2012. Beware the ides, Cam.** Well, OP, your “Ides of March” date is here. In an unprecedented action, Auburn University has been officially cleared by the NCAA. The letter states no wrong doing on Auburn’s part and no wrong doing on the part of Cam Newton. See my post of October 12, 2011 for a link to the letter. Note: I say unprecedented because the NCAA’s SOP is to simply allow the statute of limitations expire when an investigation is concluded and no wrongdoing is found. Maybe because this case got so much unwarranted publicity they decided to officially notify The World to STFU. Comments were made here about Cam “hocking his trophy”. Since he signed a $22 million contract as the number one draft pick and gets several millions more for a contract with Under Armor, I don’t think he’ll be hocking anything. His winning the NFL’s Rookie of the Year award and setting all sorts of records for a rookie QB pretty much indicates that he’ll never be hocking anything again. I still don’t understand all the hate generated towards Cam Newton. A few unscrupulous writers wanting to increase readership put unconfirmed stuff out there and like a school of piranhas, the public rushed in for the kill with no actual evidence at all. Anyway, it’s over now. There were several here that asked it I would “man up” if this turned out otherwise. Where are you now? It’s your turn to man up. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/35 "2012-03-15T15:37:01Z")
> [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](#): > > I still don’t understand all the hate generated towards Cam Newton. Never underestimate the Teeming Millions’ capacity for manufacturing unchecked outrage. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/36 "2012-03-15T15:39:11Z")
I wish their was a “LIKE” Option because I would “LIKE” **John Carter of Mars** last post. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/37 "2012-03-15T15:43:01Z")
I thought Cam Newton was one of the best stories of the past season. Rookie of the Year, a good looking kid, great athelete, seems pretty charismatic, good leader, doesn’t seem overly arrogant from what I could see … what’s not to like about him? Then again, I don’t follow college football at all, so … what, did rape puppies when he was in school or something? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/38 "2012-03-15T15:43:51Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Then again, I don’t follow college football at all, so … what, did rape puppies when he was in school or something? It’s in the very first post of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/39 "2012-03-15T15:44:13Z")
It’s still not quite noon eastern. Anything can happen. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890/40 "2012-03-15T15:49:24Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > It’s in the very first post of this thread. It doesn’t tell me much. He was recruited by two different universities. There was something about his father soliciting something for something. And Cam Newton sucks. Maybe I’m just not cut out for college football fandom, because none of that really fills me with much outrage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-when-will-cam-newton-give-the-heisman-back-pool/563890.md?page=3)