# The white flag dem, GOP campaign is coming. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 9, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822 "2005-12-09T03:34:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/1 "2005-12-09T03:34:35Z")
Dont the republicans realize that the majority of Americans think Iraq is a wasted and lost cause? > [@](#): > > The DRUDGE REPORT has learned from a top GOP operative that the Republican National Committee will provide state parties with a web video prior to release tomorrow afternoon that shows a white flag waving over images of Democrat leaders making anti-war remarks. [http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm](http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm) I predict this will blow up in their faces. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/2 "2005-12-09T03:36:21Z")
> [@lonesome loser](#): > > Dont the republicans realize that the majority of Americans think Iraq is a wasted and lost cause? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/3 "2005-12-09T03:42:46Z")
[Nearly three-quarters of Americans say the number of casualties in Iraq is unacceptable, while two-thirds say the U.S. military there is bogged down and nearly six in 10 say the war was not worth fighting – in all three cases matching or exceeding the highest levels of pessimism yet recorded. More than four in 10 believe the U.S. presence in Iraq is becoming analogous to the experience in Vietnam.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/07/AR2005060700296_pf.html) > [@furt](#): > > Cite? ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/4 "2005-12-09T03:45:49Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Cite? [http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm](http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/5 "2005-12-09T04:04:19Z")
> [@lonesome loser](#): > > I predict this will blow up in their faces. Shhhhh! Don’t tell them! Eh, who am I kiddng, the old trick of beating the drums of war and calling the anti-war people unpatriotic and treasonous, etc, will still work. Maybe not as much as before, but enough, I’ll bet. The classics never go out of style. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/6 "2005-12-09T04:15:41Z")
> [@lonesome loser](#): > > Dont the republicans realize that the majority of Americans think Iraq is a wasted and lost cause? Don’t the Democrats realize that continually criticizing the Republicans without offering alternative solutions hasn’t worked for, oh, going on six years now? ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/7 "2005-12-09T04:24:33Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > Don’t the Democrats realize that continually criticizing the Republicans without offering alternative solutions hasn’t worked for, oh, going on six years now? What part of bring the troops home don’t you understand? Haven’t enough of them died to satisfy you yet? How many will it take? ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/8 "2005-12-09T04:34:51Z")
> [@lonesome loser](#): > > What part of bring the troops home don’t you understand? > > Haven’t enough of them died to satisfy you yet? > > How many will it take? All of them, now, every single one? Or some? If some, how many, and from where? When, over the course of a month, three, six, a year, or tomorrow? Do we pull out the folks training the current Iraqi forces too? If not why not? If so, do we wait until they’re capable of supporting themselves? If so, is there a limit? ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/9 "2005-12-09T04:38:47Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > All of them, now, every single one? Or some? If some, how many, and from where? When, over the course of a month, three, six, a year, or tomorrow? Do we pull out the folks training the current Iraqi forces too? If not why not? If so, do we wait until they’re capable of supporting themselves? If so, is there a limit? All of them. Every last mothers son/daughter. Tomorrow if not before. Before one more mother loses her child. Interesting read here… > **[If America Left Iraq](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/12/if-america-left-iraq/304412/)** > > The case for cutting and running ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/10 "2005-12-09T04:52:19Z")
Republican: Democrats have no ideas! Democrat: Bring the troops home right now! Republcan: Democrats have no ideas! And they’re pussies! This is fun. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/11 "2005-12-09T04:55:24Z")
> [@lonesome loser](#): > > All of them. Every last mothers son/daughter. Tomorrow if not before. Before one more mother loses her child. > > Interesting read here… > > [http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200512/iraq-withdrawal](http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200512/iraq-withdrawal) I assume you’re using the less popular “eighteen-year-old (or older) person who made his or her own decision to join the military” definition of “child” here. That notwithstanding, and although I think your source is a little more than optimistic about what would happen in the case of a U.S. pullout, I do appreciate your coming up with an alternative rather than just complaining. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/12 "2005-12-09T04:56:33Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Republican: Democrats have no ideas! > Democrat: Bring the troops home right now! > Republcan: Democrats have no ideas! And they’re pussies! > > This is fun. > > -Joe Thanks for playing, but as you can see by my previous response, not quite. ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/13 "2005-12-09T04:59:21Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > I assume you’re using the less popular “eighteen-year-old (or older) person who made his or her own decision to join the military” definition of “child” here. > > snip… When I joined many many moons ago, I must have missed the box that you checked to agree to die for a lie. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/14 "2005-12-09T05:05:02Z")
> [@lonesome loser](#): > > When I joined many many moons ago, I must have missed the box that you checked to agree to die for a lie. > > My bad. Did you check one that said you’d follow lawful orders? Were you forced to sign the form? Then you chose to serve, and I sincerely thank you, as I’d thank any of those currently there (and several acquaintances from highschool ARE there), who have chosen to serve. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/15 "2005-12-09T05:35:49Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > Then you chose to serve, and I sincerely thank you, as I’d thank any of those currently there (and several acquaintances from highschool ARE there), who have chosen to serve. That’s right. You agreed to serve, now bend over and take it. Once you’ve finished serving, of course, nobody gives a fuck what you think because you’re not actually in uniform anymore. As a matter of fact, if you speak out against it you’re a COWARD and a TRAITOR. The really fun thing, though, is that your opinion counted when you were in uniform. Of course, back then you weren’t allowed to publically express disapproval. So your opinion counted, but you were only allowed to express a specific one. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/16 "2005-12-09T05:38:01Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > That’s right. You agreed to serve, now bend over and take it. > > Once you’ve finished serving, of course, nobody gives a fuck what you think because you’re not actually in uniform anymore. As a matter of fact, if you speak out against it you’re a COWARD and a TRAITOR. > > The really fun thing, though, is that your opinion counted when you were in uniform. Of course, back then you weren’t allowed to publically express disapproval. So your opinion counted, but you were only allowed to express a specific one. > > -Joe Wow, it’s pretty cool how you took what I said there and interpreted it into something entirely different. Asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Grelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a5b964/32.png) [@Grelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grelby)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/17 "2005-12-09T05:41:36Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > Did you check one that said you’d follow lawful orders? > > Were you forced to sign the form? > Then you chose to serve, and I sincerely thank you, as I’d thank any of those currently there (and several acquaintances from highschool ARE there), who have chosen to serve. I humbly submit that the fact that soldiers have freely signed a contract that requires them follow legal orders has absolutely nothing to do with whether it is right for them to continue to, as it was so succintly put by **lonesome loser** , die for a lie. Either it is right for our soldiers to be deployed in Iraq, or it is not. The fact that they are under legal orders has **nothing to do with that question** , and I suspect that you know this. Why even bring it up? I further submit (again, humbly) that the fact that our soldiers are all adults has nothing to do with whether or not they have families who might not, oh, want to hear that their kid has died in the sand fighting some meaningless war thousands of miles from home. You think that we should maintain our troop presence in Iraq? Fine, we can argue that. But let’s not pretend that contracts have anything to do with it :rolleyes:. ---
**Author:** ![Exploding\_Kitchen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Exploding\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exploding_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/18 "2005-12-09T05:56:31Z")
The point of the opposition isn’t to provide ideas for the ruling party. It never has been. Look at the Contract with America. It was a nice PR piece saying one thing: “We aren’t as corrupt as the Democrats.” The Democratic party has offered a clear alternative to the Republican stance. Republicans, however, feel that as long as they say that the Democrats provide no plan, that it will automagically come true. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/19 "2005-12-09T06:01:14Z")
> [@lonesome loser](#): > > All of them. Every last mothers son/daughter. Tomorrow if not before. Before one more mother loses her child. > > Interesting read here… > > [http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200512/iraq-withdrawal](http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200512/iraq-withdrawal) Piss-poor alternative since your link says only 19% of the people agree we should. I will say it is _finally_ an actual alternative. Too bad only 3 congressmen would actually vote for it. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/20 "2005-12-09T06:39:48Z")
> [@Grelby](#): > > . . . > You think that we should maintain our troop presence in Iraq? Fine, we can argue that. But let’s not pretend that contracts have anything to do with it :rolleyes:. Actually, I agree that the contract issue has very little to do with the situation in Iraq. What it does have to do with is some people’s emotional tuggin’-on-the-heartstrings use of “child” (or “kid,” though not quite as egregious) when referring to eighteen (or older) year-olds making non-coerced decisions. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822.md?page=2)