# The white flag dem, GOP campaign is coming. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 9, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822 "2005-12-09T03:34:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/141 "2005-12-13T23:19:47Z")
Go back and look at the site I linked on Bush - It HAS COPIES of the documents. Bush was a drunk a coward, an incompetent and a deserter. KILLIAN REFUSED TO RATE HIM BECAUSE HE WAS A NO SHOW. The other site, awolbush also has copies. They’re all over the place, with Killian saying he will not rate Bush BECAUSE HE WAS NOT THERE. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/142 "2005-12-13T23:33:37Z")
> [@Washington Post](#): > > Bush’s Guard Service In Question > > Questions about Bush’s Guard service first surfaced during the 2000 presidential race, when he ran against Vice President Al Gore, a Vietnam veteran. A review of Bush’s military records shows that Bush enjoyed preferential treatment as the son of a then-congressman, when he walked into a Texas Guard unit in Houston two weeks before his 1968 graduation from Yale and was moved to the top of a long waiting list. > … In 2000, the Boston Globe examined a period from May 1972 to May 1973 and found no record that Bush performed any Guard duties, either in Alabama or Houston, although he was still enlisted. … In August 1972, Bush was suspended from flying because he failed to complete an annual medical exam. A month later, Bush requested to be assigned to a different unit in Alabama and was approved. Although he was required to attend periodic drills in Alabama, there is no official record in his file that he did. > > According to the records, Bush had been instructed to report to William Turnipseed, an officer in the Montgomery unit. “Had he reported in, I would have had some recall and I do not,” Turnipseed, a retired brigadier general, told the Globe in 2000. “I had been in Texas, done my flight training there. If we had a first lieutenant from Texas, I would have remembered.” … Bush returned to Houston after the election, and again his service is vague in the records. His officers at Ellington Air Force Base wrote in May 1973 that Bush could not be given his annual evaluation, because he “has not been observed” in Houston between April 1972 and the following May. Ultimately, another officer states in a subsequent document that a report for that one-year period was unavailable for “administrative reasons.” > > The records indicate that Bush surfaced at the end of May 1973 and fulfilled point requirements 10 times between May 31 and July 30. In September 1973, Bush requested an early discharge to attend Harvard business school; in October he received an honorable discharge. I would think someone somewhere would have remebered him, especially given his “party animal” reputation at the time. I find it VERY hared to believe that any officers would refuse to rate him, unless there was a damn good reason. You rate people under you, based on what you have observed, good or bad. It’s weird - there are no records proving Bush fulfilled his obligation, but there are plenty of records showing his superiors’ ordering him to take a medical exam, and plenty of records of theire refusal to rate him based on nonattendance. My memory is rusty. What are the time limits for AWOL vs. desertion? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/143 "2005-12-13T23:38:02Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > [http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2005\_10\_30\_patriotboy\_archive.html](http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2005_10_30_patriotboy_archive.html) [Jesus’ General](http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/), **SteveG1**? It’s a great site and and all, but for _veracity_, you might as well link to the Onion, or the [Hill.com](http://Hill.com). ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/144 "2005-12-13T23:41:13Z")
By viewing Hillary you have your answer when we will win in Iraq. Look at her and listen to what she is saying. She know that victory is at hand and she is positioning herself to benefit for that. We will see our troops comming home en-mass before the next presidential run. Hillary know that she must support this effort to win in 2008, to be against the war then will mean political death to anyone running. (My Humble O) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/145 "2005-12-13T23:47:25Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Jesus’ General](http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/), **SteveG1**? > It’s a great site and and all, but for _veracity_, you might as well link to the Onion, or the [Hill.com](http://Hill.com). For some (probably mentally deficient) reason, I had to do that. It tickles my funny bone, big time. I just love the smiling Buddy Christ in the army helmet 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/146 "2005-12-14T00:38:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Interesting. > > Suppose an anti-war person said something like: > Since this “paraphrase” is a simple falsehood, would it be worthy of condemnation, or does the person get a walk on this? > > Or is it ethical to lie about your opponents’s positions, if they are pro-war? God, you’re a fucking tool sometimes, **Shodan**. First, you left off my caveat; second, that’s not a simple falsehood. Why don’t you shut the fuck up sometimes? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/147 "2005-12-14T00:47:46Z")
I’ll leave it to **Shodan** , that little tool, to link to the thread with my caveat in it; meanwhile, I’ll quote the bit of the Contract to which I was referring in that admittedly biased paraphrase (and to which I linked in my original post, along with encouragement for the reader to go look at it themselves to form their own opinion): > [@CWA](#): > > It can be the beginning of a Congress that respects the values and shares the faith of the American family. Gee, what faith does “the American family” have? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? You’re entering **december** territory, jerk. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/148 "2005-12-14T00:56:01Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > By viewing Hillary you have your answer when we will win in Iraq. Look at her and listen to what she is saying. She know that victory is at hand and she is positioning herself to benefit for that. We will see our troops comming home en-mass before the next presidential run. Hillary know that she must support this effort to win in 2008, to be against the war then will mean political death to anyone running. > > (My Humble O) What does this have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/149 "2005-12-14T01:17:45Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > What does this have to do with anything? Because Hillary Clinton is the sum total of the universe’s evil machinations. Even if someday she ends up destiute cripple begging for cigarette butts on a street corner it will still be part of Her Master Plan. It would be obvious if you weren’t such a liberal stooge. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/150 "2005-12-14T01:56:45Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Because Hillary Clinton is the sum total of the universe’s evil machinations. > > Even if someday she ends up destiute cripple begging for cigarette butts on a street corner it will still be part of Her Master Plan. > > It would be obvious if you weren’t such a liberal stooge. > > -Joe I feel. so. dirty. now. Nahhh, I feel fine. It’s fascinating, how the OP was about that White Flag ad, and nobody seems to have to produce any cites justifying it, but anyone who has heartburn with it, has to keep dredging up cites that have already been beat to death - cites that we KNOW were already seen repeatedly by the people asking for them (again). Let’s see some cites about the brave and heartfelt sacrifices the chickenhawks are making. Let’s see some cites that prove they aren’t lying out their ass. Let’s cut to the chase. Anyone who thinks it is OK, anyone who does not see the transparent and blatant and offensive hypocrisy of it is blind. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/151 "2005-12-14T03:04:42Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I feel. so. dirty. now. Nahhh, I feel fine. It’s fascinating, how the OP was about that White Flag ad, and nobody seems to have to produce any cites justifying it, but anyone who has heartburn with it, has to keep dredging up cites that have already been beat to death - cites that we KNOW were already seen repeatedly by the people asking for them (again). Let’s see some cites about the brave and heartfelt sacrifices the chickenhawks are making. Let’s see some cites that prove they aren’t lying out their ass. > Let’s cut to the chase. Anyone who thinks it is OK, anyone who does not see the transparent and blatant and offensive hypocrisy of it is blind. I’ll happily shut up as soon as **Sam** enlists. Oh, and I’d like a pony, too. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/152 "2005-12-14T03:08:50Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I’ll happily shut up as soon as **Sam** enlists. > > Oh, and I’d like a pony, too. > > -Joe There must be a pony somewhere, look at all the horse shit! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/153 "2005-12-14T03:46:26Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > There must be a pony somewhere, look at all the horse shit! :eek: That ain’t pony droppings, son. That’s from clydesdales. -Joe, with fluffy white feet! ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/154 "2005-12-14T15:35:15Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] > [@bup](#): > > [Hijack]Small world. I use to work for the defense contractor that wrote RCAS.[/hijack] > > Really!! > > I was the project lead for a support contract for the PMO RCAS. I was with the PMO from source selection, just after Star Carey took over as PM, through competition through award and initial fielding. > > Were you in Vienna? Yeah, working on the RCENL and RCOFF contracts. And **SteveG1** has put up some pretty good sources that indicate Bush wasn’t there. It’s also telling to me that Bush refused to speak on the matter. Never said, “I was there.” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/155 "2005-12-14T17:33:56Z")
[QUOTE=bup] > [@Bricker](#): > > Yeah, working on the RCENL and RCOFF contracts. > > And **SteveG1** has put up some pretty good sources that indicate Bush wasn’t there. > > It’s also telling to me that Bush refused to speak on the matter. Never said, “I was there.” Well, I’m not providing any more fucking cites. I’m sick of it. I have to give cites for every fucking thing I say, but no one else has to. Fuck that bullshit. I stand on what I said. The chickenhawks are a bunch of lying cowardly scumbag warmongers who never had any balls themselves. Fuck their goddam white flag too. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/156 "2005-12-14T17:48:14Z")
Same kind of shit **december** used to pull all the time, too. He’d never admit the burden of proof was ever on him, and neither does **Bricker**. To **december** ’s credit by comparison, though, he never tried to pretend that the court of public opinion has a beyond-all-possible-let-alone-reasonable doubt standard. Don’t worry about it, **Steve**. Everyone willing to consider the facts already is convinced. The partisan zealots you can’t reach anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/157 "2005-12-14T18:44:54Z")
There is a new thread, moved from GD to the Pit today, in which Bush has finally publically admitted (sort of) that pre-war intel was faulty (codespeek for - he twisted it until it was faulty). The cowardly fuck still insists though, in his own feeble way, on blaming someone else. Now, back to that fucking White Flag. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822/158 "2005-12-14T21:00:31Z")
[QUOTE=SteveG1] > [@bup](#): > > Well, I’m not providing any more fucking cites. I’m sick of it. I have to give cites for every fucking thing I say, but no one else has to. Fuck that bullshit. I stand on what I said. The chickenhawks are a bunch of lying cowardly scumbag warmongers who never had any balls themselves. Fuck their goddam white flag too. I coined the the term “argument by attrition” for a reason. -Joe, catchy and accurate! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-flag-dem-gop-campaign-is-coming/334822.md?page=7)