# The white hood: heritage, not hate! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050 "2015-06-21T02:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/361 "2015-06-24T12:52:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > A terrible person? Oh no, some random person on the internet has an opinion and a place to express it. I could respond with an equally juvenile insult about you and would probably be a more accurate reflection of your character, but why? Anyone can type nonsensical insults like elementary school children. Making a coherent argument takes a bit more work, even if the troll, and you are trolling, responding to it can’t comprehend it. You derive satisfaction from name calling because? Also, Octopus? You smarmy halfwit hypocrite, your posts have been absolutely littered with insults toward everyone who disagrees with you, calling me self-righteous and smug and anything else you can think of. You’ve not yet bothered to make a coherent argument–or if you have bothered, I weep for the state of education, that you think your arguments approach coherence. You’re a fucking moron if you think you’re in any position to whine about insults being thrown at you. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/362 "2015-06-24T13:21:56Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > This ignores of course that Washington ordered that his slaves be freed upon the death of his wife and Jefferson fought for gradual abolitionist measures. Not to mention that the logic of this would lead us to condemn every pre-Enlightenment Western figure as well as virtually every non-Western figure until the late 19th if not early 20th Centuries. Washington’s slaves were eventually freed; he was unable to free the ones Martha had brought from her first marriage, or their descendants. Some of that bloodline were eventually inherited by Mrs Robert E Lee. Jefferson mentioned gradual abolitionist measures but hardly “fought” for them. In his _Notes on the State of Virginia_ he detailed the inferiority of the African race–and why any freed slaves would have to be shipped far, far away. Due to his shambolic financial situation, his slaves were auctioned off after his death, breaking up families. He did free a few favorites, The children of Sally Hemings mostly just left & were not pursued; they were white enough to pass. Discussing the history of race & slavery fully is important but I wouldn’t dump Washington or Jefferson (with whom I have a few more bones to pick). ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/363 "2015-06-24T13:30:30Z")
I’ve noticed that, in this thread and others (like the one about “microaggressions”), there are a lot of arguments/claims that basically boil down to “oh, racism isn’t really that big a problem anymore; those minorities are just being oversensitive.” Excuse me if I look skeptically at such arguments. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/364 "2015-06-24T13:57:50Z")
> [@Smartass](#): > > Remember, the South was the losing side. White men (northern AND southern) oppressed black people. After the Civil War, the north oppressed the South, and many northerners continue to disdain southerners. The desire to piss off northerners is not some random southern urge to be insulting, it is a desire to RESPOND to insults. Any comparison of the oppression of black people in the old South (or the old North, for that matter) to any supposed oppression of the South (and I assume you mean “Southern white people” here) by the North following the Civil War is on the verge of offensive. There is no comparison here. As to the flag itself, in this Southern (born in Atlanta, raised in Louisiana and Arkansas, and currently residing in Virginia) veteran’s opinion, flying the Confederate flag where black people might see it is as rude, obnoxious, and un-neighborly as flying the swastika for supposed Germanic pride where Jews might see it. I’ll put aside any accusations of racism against flag wavers for now – it’s just incredibly rude, obnoxious, and un-neighborly. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/365 "2015-06-24T14:27:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > We’ll carve out exceptions. If it’s your private road or building or hunting grounds or whatever, keep its name whatever you want. Fuck knows Rick Perry would. If it’s a museum specifically dedicated to Robert E. Lee, no need to change its name. But I love thinking that someone would go to the Frederick Douglas Museum, and inside it would be all about Robert E. Lee. “What’s with all this military stuff?” “I did not know that Douglas went to West Point.” “Or fought in the Mexican American War!?” “Wow -he was paler than I thought - did he ever try to pass?” ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/366 "2015-06-24T14:37:21Z")
To be fair, they both had really great beards. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/367 "2015-06-24T15:25:04Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Again, you can’t even respond to the points I’m making, can you? Your responses are all strawmen, insults and tone-policing. And yes, you cache your insults in roundabout language so you can pretend you aren’t slinging insults just the same as me, but that’s exactly what you’re doing. > > This is not why I’m criticizing you, so why are you bringing it up with me? Are you attempting another strawman? If not, then why bring this up in response to me. > > And I have given you the historical context for that flag. But you want us only to focus on the context of the person waving that flag while ignoring the historical context. > > Right, you’re so willing to listen are you? Let’s take the last quote you posted: > > Aside from the lies and strawmen here, this is again an attempt to trivialize real atrocities that happened in living memory. Your use of quotes here around the words “triggered” and “offended” implies sarcasm and implies that you think the atrocities suffered mere decades ago are trivial. Your use of a strawmen here also implies that too, because you are trying to twist my argument to imply that I want to ban everything everywhere, instead of grappling with the actual terror that happened under that flag. > > You can pretend I’m unhinged or whatever you want, but you are truly terrible person who is minimizing real atrocities. You’re also a lying shithead. I have minimized nothing. I have told you and others multiple time that so stick your faux outrage up your ass, if there’s room. Am I doing pit talk right? I’m just not an arrogant twat who self righteously and hypocritically tells someone else what they mean. Strawman and liar? When one is met with insults such as you and dork have used during your diatribes you don’t deserve respect in return. Dork was the one who ruined the tone of this thread to begin with. And “tone policing”? More hypocrisy from the asshole brigade I see. Realize this though. I’m actually sympathetic and a proponent to treating everyone as individuals. But you all attacking me for not having the orthodoxy’s proscribed amount of outrage and giving people the benefit of the doubt doesn’t gain you allies. I’m probably not the first person who has joined to participate in Great Debates and have decided it’s a self righteous Echo chamber full of those with no people skills. Honestly that’s what you people remind me of. People who can’t relate to real people. Can’t hold a job with real people probably. Anyways enjoy your “intellectual” echo chamber and juvenile cess pool. You slimey people aren’t worth any more time in a sub forum that is incompetently moderated. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/368 "2015-06-24T15:27:00Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Honestly that’s what you people remind me of. People who can’t relate to real people. Can’t hold a job with real people probably. > > Anyways enjoy your “intellectual” echo chamber and juvenile cess pool. You slimey people aren’t worth any more time in a sub forum that is incompetently moderated. Congratulations on your flame-out. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/369 "2015-06-24T15:32:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’m just not an arrogant twat who self righteously and hypocritically tells someone else what they mean. You really fuckin are, dude. You really fuckin are. ---
**Author:** ![Smartass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@Smartass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smartass)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/370 "2015-06-24T15:57:29Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Education level? Really? In this town, Americus Ga, in between Albany, Columbus, Macon, like literally in between that triangle of larger towns. My point is, it is a hub. lots of small towns surround us. The population here is 20,000 in town, 30,000 combined int the county. Sorry, I didn’t realize we were going this small…I was thinking of “towns” that are, say, 80K or bigger. And what I have observed is that, for example, the presence of the UA in Tuscaloosa and the aerospace complex in Huntsville seems to align with more education, less backwoods superstition. If we’re talking about more rural areas, then I would say that your description could easily apply to great swaths of Alabama, as well. However, you should take that with a grain of salt, because while I have passed through many small communities in Alabama, I have lived in none. > [@Robert163](#): > > My reaction would be to say they are all full of mildly racist people, all of South Georgia but I do not state that as a fact. What I do know is that in this town, where my sister is a school teacher and her husband is a sheriffs deputy, I get to meet a lot of people from all levels of society. Every level here seems to have a lot of mildly racist people. Position and/or education level seem to have very little bearing on whether a person is racist or not. That’s probably a good description. However, I don’t really like to talk about the “background racism” in a context like this discussion, because I don’t think there is anything uniquely southern about it–I think it’s all over, but perhaps expressed differently. To be clear, I’m talking about the kind of people who don’t use racial epithets, but when a black family moves into their neighborhood, wring their hands over property values. > [@Robert163](#): > > Certain people, certain individuals seems to break away from the conformity of growing up here. But not that many. I generally agree, and here is where I think education plays a role. People that never interact much with others outside of family seem more entrenched, whereas people that go to college pick up a wider worldview and even sometimes spread it. I also think there’s a real generational effect. I feel like my parents’ generation has more deep-seeded racism, my generation has less, and my kids even less. Which is why I make comments like the only real fix for racism is to wait for a certain number of older people to die. My grandparents had their good points, and I loved them, but the fact remains that when they died, there were that many less people in the world who didn’t understand why it’s not okay to say things like “I worked like a n-r all day today.” > [@Robert163](#): > > And once again, it is mildly racist people, not severely racist. The amount of people I have met who hate black people is small, almost non existent. The amount of people who are mildly racist, with a derogatory or patronizing view of black people, seems to be, almost all the white people here. I think you’re making a similar distinction to the one I make when I talk about “loud” racists vs “quiet” racists. > [@Robert163](#): > > The level of conformity here is stifling…People here are very friendly. They are also very judgmental and clannish. Yeah, I think that’s a fair description of a lot of southern communities. > [@Robert163](#): > > Would you say that all of rural Alabama and Rural Georgia are this way or is this one town for some reason worse? No, I think you’re probably spot-on in discussing the rural areas. However, you should keep in mind that I’m a big-time city boy, from the urban metropolis that is Tuscaloosa, AL. And if anyone were passing by, they’d wonder why I’m snorting while I’m typing. -VM ---
**Author:** ![Smartass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@Smartass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smartass)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/371 "2015-06-24T16:00:01Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Hey, you guys started it. Don’t start a war, or continue it symbolically, if you don’t want people disagreeing with you. > > And that flag has fuck all to do with what southerners SHOULD be proud of. You’re making a fair point, but I feel it’s worth pointing out that it takes two sides to continue a war in culture. Having one symbol to point at is not the only issue here. -VM ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/372 "2015-06-24T16:35:25Z")
[“Sweet home” Alabama](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/alabama-gov-orders-confederate-flag-capitol-article-1.2269383) gets ahead of SC. Who’d have thought… Then again, the whole notion in SC of the statehouse-grounds flag being unmovable w/o a legislative supermajority, _not even for half-masting_, is daft. Why the heck would you do _that_. Does that mean the flag was at full length for the deaths of former Presidents, 9/11, etc, for 15 years? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/373 "2015-06-24T16:41:47Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You really fuckin are, dude. You really fuckin are. And he/she is a lying sack, to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/374 "2015-06-24T16:43:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Lol. Is this acceptable language in the pit? I could be wrong. We’ll let a moderator decide. I feel bad calling you stupid because it’s rude and you can’t pick your parents but the language you used is truly unbecoming. Do you kiss your husband with those dirty lips? [Moderating] Yes, this is acceptable language for the Pit. This forum is where posters who feel they have an irreconcilable difference with another poster are allowed to express their feelings in a less constrained fashion. It is not, however, a total free-for-all. See [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=507985) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858) for details on what is and is not allowed in the Pit. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/375 "2015-06-24T16:46:43Z")
**Miller** , your efforts at education are commendable, but I fear the ass is already out of the barn. “Echo chamber” and “none of you people can even hold down jobs” are clear harbingers of an impending flounce or flame out. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/376 "2015-06-24T16:57:47Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > And he/she is a lying sack, to boot. I haven’t read the whole thread, so I may have missed it. But what did he/she lie about? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/377 "2015-06-24T17:12:28Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > **Miller** , your efforts at education are commendable, but I fear the ass is already out of the barn. “Echo chamber” and “none of you people can even hold down jobs” are clear harbingers of an impending flounce or flame out. I’m back. I even looked up flounce. No, I was trying “pit speak” and I find that while fun as a diversion it’s ultimately even more counterproductive than the typical stereotypical internet debate. I also find that being a vulgar, profane, intellectually dishonest bull of a poster may come naturally for some it doesn’t for me. I’d rather debate in more civil areas of this forum. About the “holding down jobs” you’ll learn you can if you treat people as people even if you disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/378 "2015-06-24T17:20:37Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’m back. I even looked up flounce. No, I was trying “pit speak” and I find that while fun as a diversion it’s ultimately even more counterproductive than the typical stereotypical internet debate. I also find that being a vulgar, profane, intellectually dishonest bull of a poster may come naturally for some it doesn’t for me. I’d rather debate in more civil areas of this forum. > > About the “holding down jobs” you’ll learn you can if you treat people as people even if you disagree. So, then you’re not leaving us? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/379 "2015-06-24T17:40:38Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So, then you’re not leaving us? Of course not, I just won’t be spending much time in “The Pit.” I’d rather attempt to discuss the issues of the day in an area that has at least the facade of respectability. Insults and “yo mama” jokes can be fun for a bit but ultimately it’s just stupidity. And what type of “pit” is it when you can call someone a “dickhead” and I can’t respond with the first word in the restricted language list?!? Pussyhead just doesn’t cut it for me. Yeah, fun but childish. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/380 "2015-06-24T18:00:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’d rather attempt to discuss the issues of the day in an area that has at least the facade of respectability. A facade of respectability is all you aim for, you dishonest weasel. You’ve been a nasty little insulter since your entrance into this thread, flying just under the Great Debates rules. It’s nice to be able to tell you how contemptible you are, with your hypocritical scoldings of other people. Not all Southern people engage in this sort of passive-aggressive “I’m not insulting you!” bullshit, but you’re kind of a poster-boy for this ugly part of Southern culture. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050.md?page=20)