# The white hood: heritage, not hate! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050 "2015-06-21T02:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/501 "2015-06-26T15:39:20Z")
[quote=“iiandyiiii, post:500, topic:723050”] That wouldn’t tell us about how people feel in the present, including after a major event. But that’s my point. An even occurred in which the flag merely made an appearance. It did not cause the shooting. It was not the reason for the shooting. So, to hold it front and center now, after the shooting, and conflating the two, seems like a cheap opportunistic attempt to manufacture outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/502 "2015-06-26T15:39:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Why wouldn’t you want to look to last year, before the shooting? Why would you want to make the most of emotionalism and the increase of manufactured outrage? I know, right? How dare people have emotions about mass murder? That’s not what emotions are for! As for “manufactured” outrage, you can stick that where the sun don’t shine, buddy. Who the fuck do you think manufactured it, other than the Evil Democrats Who Are Responsible For Everything You Disagree With? Never mind, answered my own question there. The mass killings have gotten folks thinking about the flag. Turns out that when folks think about it, they’re not real fond of it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/503 "2015-06-26T15:44:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I know, right? How dare people have emotions about mass murder? That’s not what emotions are for! > > As for “manufactured” outrage, you can stick that where the sun don’t shine, buddy. Who the fuck do you think manufactured it, other than the Evil Democrats Who Are Responsible For Everything You Disagree With? Never mind, answered my own question there. > > The mass killings have gotten folks thinking about the flag. Turns out that when folks think about it, they’re not real fond of it. Lot’s of typing, no answers to the questions. Hmmm. And yes, there is manufactured outrage. Your OP is proof of that! But I’m not the least surprised that you’d want to depend on persuading people when they are their most emotional. As opposed, to say, their most rational or fairest. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/504 "2015-06-26T16:00:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But that’s my point. An even occurred in which the flag merely made an appearance. It did not cause the shooting. It was not the reason for the shooting. So, to hold it front and center now, after the shooting, and conflating the two, seems like a cheap opportunistic attempt to manufacture outrage. To me, it just allowed a bunch of existing outrage to bubble up to resonate with the public – many people (including myself) had been angry for along time that South Carolina (and other states) prominently display the Confederate flag on government property, but were mostly ignored. Because of this shooting, many people who had previously ignored this opinion reconsidered, and I think this is a good thing coming out of a bad thing. Even though the flag was a small thing, and wasn’t the cause of the shooting, it shouldn’t have been there and it’s a good thing that it’s brought down. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/505 "2015-06-26T16:06:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Lot’s of typing, no answers to the questions. Hmmm. Your question is predicated on stupidity, and so it can’t be answered. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/506 "2015-06-26T16:07:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > To me, it just allowed a bunch of existing outrage to bubble up to resonate with the public – many people (including myself) had been angry for along time that South Carolina (and other states) prominently display the Confederate flag on government property, but were mostly ignored. Because of this shooting, many people who had previously ignored this opinion reconsidered, and I think this is a good thing coming out of a bad thing. > > Even though the flag was a small thing, and wasn’t the cause of the shooting, it shouldn’t have been there and it’s a good thing that it’s brought down. Fair enough. As I’ve stated earlier, I have no great affection or hate for the flag, but I wonder what the next thing will be that we must be protected from being offended by. ::shrug:: ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/507 "2015-06-26T16:08:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your question is predicated on stupidity, and so it can’t be answered. Yet, you chose to attempt to respond to the post in question which was comprised solely of two questions. And you’re calling someone else stupid! Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/508 "2015-06-26T16:17:51Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Fair enough. As I’ve stated earlier, I have no great affection or hate for the flag, but I wonder what the next thing will be that we must be protected from being offended by. > > ::shrug:: Good to know that your reaction to racist symbols is profound indifference! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/509 "2015-06-26T16:26:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Fair enough. As I’ve stated earlier, I have no great affection or hate for the flag, but I wonder what the next thing will be that we must be protected from being offended by. > > ::shrug:: I don’t see it as protection – after all, the flag isn’t outlawed. I just see it as the (state) governments recognizing, finally, that the opinion of most black people on this issue is valid. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/510 "2015-06-26T16:31:16Z")
And now we all know why it’s pointless to attempt to have an intelligent conversation with magellan01. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/511 "2015-06-26T16:42:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t see it as protection – after all, the flag isn’t outlawed. I just see it as the (state) governments recognizing, finally, that the opinion of most black people on this issue is valid. Most _people_. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/512 "2015-06-26T16:58:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > A significant minority of black South Carolinians support flying the Confederate flag. > [@Terr](#): > > 17%. If you want to say 17% is significant (with unreported error bars - the (sub)sample size of blacks was presumably pretty low) knock yourself out. My rule of thumb though is that 20% of the public will report all manner of bizarre stuff while being polled on the telephone as they cook dinner. 9% believe fluoride is dangerous. 14% believe the CIA developed crack. 13% think Obama is the Anti-Christ (or was it Hillary?). 15% believe the government controls minds with TV (well, I guess they have a point). And 4% believe lizard people control politics. (Ditto.) UFO crashed in Roswell? 21%. Medical industry invents diseases? 15%. Bigfoot? 14%. You like raw numbers? 66 million think aliens landed in Roswell in 1948. But that’s a pretty silly way of presenting things. Troll harder Terr. [http://www.thewire.com/national/2013/04/12-million-americans-believe-lizard-people-run-our-country/63799/](http://www.thewire.com/national/2013/04/12-million-americans-believe-lizard-people-run-our-country/63799/) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/513 "2015-06-26T17:21:06Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Good to know that your reaction to racist symbols is profound indifference! Either that, or I don’t see it is cleanly as you do. We’d no count agree on the KKK and the hood, but as I pointed out upthread, just because you and others want to put it in the same category as those symbols, does;'t mean it is. You see, there’s a little thing called reality that you’re ignoring. Unsurprisingly. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/514 "2015-06-26T17:42:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Either that, or I don’t see it is cleanly as you do. We’d no count agree on the KKK and the hood, but as I pointed out upthread, just because you and others want to put it in the same category as those symbols, does;'t mean it is. You see, there’s a little thing called reality that you’re ignoring. Unsurprisingly. Oh, you want to argue in terms of reality? Well, Senator Wicker of Mississippi has something to say about opening one’s eyes and seeing the world as it actually exists, rather than some ideological fantasyland: > [@](#): > > As the descendant of several brave Americans who fought for the Confederacy, I have not viewed Mississippi’s current state flag as offensive. **However, it is clearer and clearer to me that many of my fellow citizens feel differently and that our state flag increasingly portrays a false impression of our state to others** ,” Wicker said. “The flag should be removed since it causes offense to so many of my brothers and sisters, creating dissension rather than unity." Or how about Congressman Mick Mulvaney of South Carolina: > [@](#): > > And my initial reaction to calls to summarily remove the flag was that such an action would be tantamount to admitting what is not true for many South Carolinians: that the flag is a symbol of hate. … **But in speaking with many people over the course of the last few days, it has become clear that the flag does in fact mean different things to different people in our state. And I blame myself for not listening closely enough to people who see the flag differently than I do. It is a poor reflection on me that it took the violent death of my former desk mate in the SC Senate, and eight others of the best the Charleston community had to offer, to open my eyes to that.** So are these fine, conservative, Southern politicians also ignorant of reality? Is that what you’re saying? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/515 "2015-06-26T17:55:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Either that, or I don’t see it is cleanly as you do. We’d no count agree on the KKK and the hood, but as I pointed out upthread, just because you and others want to put it in the same category as those symbols, does;'t mean it is. You see, there’s a little thing called reality that you’re ignoring. Unsurprisingly. Okay, I’ll bite. What’s the difference between KKK robes and the confederate flag? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/516 "2015-06-26T18:02:22Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > If you want to say 17% is significant (with unreported error bars - the (sub)sample size of blacks was presumably pretty low) knock yourself out. My rule of thumb though is that 20% of the public will report all manner of bizarre stuff while being polled on the telephone as they cook dinner. And yet you won’t find 20% of Jews supporting displays of Nazi swastika. Of 10%. Or 1%, I bet. No one even polls this, since the answer is obvious. How does that go with your rule of thumb? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/517 "2015-06-26T18:04:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And yet you won’t find 20% of Jews supporting displays of Nazi swastika. Of 10%. Or 1%, I bet. No one even polls this, since the answer is obvious. How does that go with your rule of thumb? Perhaps [not so obvious](https://www.thefire.org/cases/george-washington-university-jewish-student-suspended-for-displaying-souvenir-indian-swastika/). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/518 "2015-06-26T18:07:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And yet you won’t find 20% of Jews supporting displays of Nazi swastika. Of 10%. Or 1%, I bet. No one even polls this, since the answer is obvious. How does that go with your rule of thumb? You’ve got to be one of the stupidest people alive to look at a poll where 73% of people want something, and you seriously argue that the 17% who don’t want something prove that the 73% are wrong. What. The. Fuck. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/519 "2015-06-26T18:11:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And yet you won’t find 20% of Jews supporting displays of Nazi swastika. Of 10%. Or 1%, I bet. No one even polls this, since the answer is obvious. How does that go with your rule of thumb? The majority of black people are right about anti-black racism, and I trust them about the flag, just as I trust the majority of Jews (including myself and many family members) about the swastika and anti-Semitism. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/520 "2015-06-26T18:15:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Okay, I’ll bite. What’s the difference between KKK robes and the confederate flag? It’s the eyeholes, isn’t it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050.md?page=27)