# The white hood: heritage, not hate! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050 "2015-06-21T02:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/81 "2015-06-21T20:26:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If you want a real symbol of the South, try a bowl of grits. Y’know, if the South needs a symbol that’s not soaked in the blood of traitors and their victims, maybe they should look at the symbols adopted by other regions of the country. Such as New England, whose universal symbol is . . . hmmm. Or the midwest, which adopted as their symbol the . . . uh. . . . Okay, what about the northwest, with their widely recognized symbol of . . . huh. Maybe, as it turns out, regions of a country don’t need symbols. Maybe we could get by the same way everyone else does. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/82 "2015-06-21T20:27:48Z")
[http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/12/02/black-college-student-wins-fight-to-display-confederate-flag-in-dorm-room/](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/12/02/black-college-student-wins-fight-to-display-confederate-flag-in-dorm-room/) Find me an instance of a black guy demanding the right to walk around in a Klan costume or a Jew demanding the right to display a swastika. That’s the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/83 "2015-06-21T20:40:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/12/02/black-college-student-wins-fight-to-display-confederate-flag-in-dorm-room/](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/12/02/black-college-student-wins-fight-to-display-confederate-flag-in-dorm-room/) > > Find me an instance of a black guy demanding the right to walk around in a Klan costume or a Jew demanding the right to display a swastika. > > That’s the difference. That’s one difference (although [maybe not as big a difference as you think](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2000/summer/confederates-in-black)). Another difference is that you don’t need red dye to make a white hood. It’s not, however, a relevant difference for the point I’m making. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/84 "2015-06-21T20:52:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/12/02/black-college-student-wins-fight-to-display-confederate-flag-in-dorm-room/](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/12/02/black-college-student-wins-fight-to-display-confederate-flag-in-dorm-room/) > > Find me an instance of a black guy demanding the right to walk around in a Klan costume or a Jew demanding the right to display a swastika. > > That’s the difference. Find me an instance of a white woman demanding to be called bla… oh, wait. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/85 "2015-06-21T20:56:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Just to be clear, are you saying a state should not be allowed to display the flag, or that in your opinion, they shouldn’t? States in my opinion (and where applicable, as this probably isn’t relevant in, say, Massachusetts) should pass laws prohibiting display of the Confederate flag on public property. > [@](#): > > ETA: I responded to you before you added that last sentence, and I have no idea what is meant by “sweet tea” in that context. If you have never been involuntarily served the abomination that is called “sweet tea”, then you will not understand the need to take decisive action against it. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/86 "2015-06-21T21:09:14Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > If you have never been involuntarily served the abomination that is called “sweet tea”, then you will not understand the need to take decisive action against it. :mad: You know that if you outlaw calling it sweet tea, we’ll still make it, we’ll just call it icetea. At least if it’s sweettea you can avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/87 "2015-06-21T21:10:27Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Just off the top of my head Kanye West. It’s his flag now. I somehow don’t think Kanye wears it for Southern Pride. To quote him: “I just think people look cool in it. They look nice. " Sure he talks some about “taking it back” and stuff, but I think ultimately it’s about fashion for him, and certainly not Southern anything (unless those first 3 Georgian years really stuck) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/88 "2015-06-21T21:13:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I somehow don’t think Kanye wears it for Southern Pride. To quote him: > “I just think people look cool in it. They look nice. " Sure he talks some about “taking it back” and stuff, but I think ultimately it’s about fashion for him, and certainly not Southern anything (unless those first 3 Georgian years really stuck) > [@Kanye](#): > > You know, the Confederate flag represented slavery in a way – that’s my abstract take on what I know about it. So I made the song ‘New Slaves.’ So I took the Confederate flag and made it my flag. It’s my flag. Now what are you going to do? I’m not convinced his political point is completely coherent, but he’s definitely trying to make one. As far as I can tell, he could make the same political point with a Klan hood. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/89 "2015-06-21T21:16:36Z")
I wouldn’t take the babblings of someone like KW as anything other than: look at me, and buy my stuff!! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/90 "2015-06-21T21:19:39Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > And where did the people of Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, and Missouri get the brilliant idea of holding Africans as slaves? From their fucking friends in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia. > > Also, the notion that the CSA was fundamentally different from the USA is belied by the fact that they had the same Constitutions. The major difference being that the South’s constitution specifically referred to “slaves” rather than using the North’s euphemism. > > Moreover, this obnoxious argument that the CSA was worse than the USA is predicated on what? The belief that it was better to be a slave in Kentucky than a slave in Mississippi? Were slaves in Missouri supposed to feel better about being owned because they were still in the Union and inheritors of the Declaration of Independence while slaves in Arkansas were stuck being owned in that evil Confederacy? > > I think being a slave was pretty shitty either way. Slavery is shitty indeed. That’s why so many countries abolished slavery. And why a bunch of states abolished slavery. And why the United States abolished slavery. Notice anywhere left off the list of places that voluntarily abolished slavery? It wasn’t a fluke either. As soon as they were able to - after the war that forced them to give up slavery at gunpoint - the south enacted black codes which put black Americans back into a status that was as close to slavery as the law would allow. And the south didn’t give that up voluntarily either. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/91 "2015-06-21T21:21:55Z")
> [@naita](#): > > You just swapped the US for Washington and broke your own argument. Take Washington, subtract everything the CSA stood for, including the white supremacy you acknowledge in your first sentence, and fighting against having laws made elsewhere forced upon him/them. What do you have left? My argument made sense. I have no idea what your argument is trying to say. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/92 "2015-06-21T21:26:02Z")
At a minimum, anyone proudly displaying the Confederate battle flag is suspiciously OK with having people think they’re a racist. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/93 "2015-06-21T21:31:27Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > States in my opinion (and where applicable, as this probably isn’t relevant in, say, Massachusetts) should pass laws prohibiting display of the Confederate flag on public property. OK. > [@](#): > > If you have never been involuntarily served the abomination that is called “sweet tea”, then you will not understand the need to take decisive action against it. :mad: If it’s that pre-sweetened tea they serve in The South, I’m sure I’ve had it. Just didn’t know it was called that. It wasn’t my cup of tea, if you get my drift. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/94 "2015-06-21T21:37:36Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Claiming the CSA was a somehow “worse” country than the USA is horseshit because they had the EXACT SAME Constitution. Well, the Confederacy unfortunately embraced the fundamental flaw that hampered the U.S., and I don’t mean slavery - I refer to states’ rights. Even if they’d managed to break away permanently by the Union giving up (or possibly by not attacking Sumter or giving a comparable _causus belli_ in the first place), in time the Confederacy itself would have fallen apart because aside from slavery, there was no central power or idea to hold it together. Heck, sooner or later one of the CSA would have become sufficiently annoyed by something to secede and either try to go it alone (and get starved out) or end up re-annexed by either the Union or CSA, perhaps by force, and then the whole thing unravels. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/95 "2015-06-21T21:41:56Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I somehow don’t think Kanye wears it for Southern Pride. To quote him: > “I just think people look cool in it. They look nice. " Sure he talks some about “taking it back” and stuff, but I think ultimately it’s about fashion for him, and certainly not Southern anything (unless those first 3 Georgian years really stuck) Ok. That’s fair and it alludes to my original point. You can’t accurately know what the motivations are for waving or wearing the Confederate Flag and making the assumption that the reasons are racist or pro slavery can often be false. Whereas, it takes a pretty contrived reason to say the same about wearing a Klansman hood. People who populate message boards and this board in particular are not the average person. So the knowledge set you may have is far different than the average person who sees an edgy symbol associated with a rebellion 150 years ago, that others in the same environment may wear as a belt buckle or something, and decides to have it on a t-shirt. It’s more similar to using “my nigga” in an environment in which that term is used commonly and freely. There’s nothing racist about that at all. Whereas, the word ‘boy’ very well could be racist in the same environment. Context is key. And the environment in which one learns to use those words or display those symbols is key as well. You can’t know the motivation just be seeing the flag or hearing the word. And the thing is, educated people know this but for some reason dismiss it. Seeing US flags and Confederate flags together is also an apparent contradiction but relatively common in the South. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/96 "2015-06-21T21:49:24Z")
**Grotonian** , the USA was better than the CSA for many reasons, but the most important was that the USA ended slavery and the CSA fought to preserve it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/97 "2015-06-21T21:59:24Z")
Heck, if there was any rationality in the world, the amusement park would be called _Five Flags, Plus One We’re Not That Proud Of_. ---
**Author:** ![Verily](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e9a140/32.png) [@Verily](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Verily)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/98 "2015-06-21T22:05:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m not convinced his political point is completely coherent, but he’s definitely trying to make one. As far as I can tell, he could make the same political point with a Klan hood. [He has.](http://channelawesome.com/rap-critic-black-skinhead-by-kanye-west/) Though that does not, in any way, negate the charge that his political point is less than coherent. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/99 "2015-06-21T22:13:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Slavery is shitty indeed. That’s why so many countries abolished slavery. And why a bunch of states abolished slavery. And why the United States abolished slavery. Notice anywhere left off the list of places that voluntarily abolished slavery? > > It wasn’t a fluke either. As soon as they were able to - after the war that forced them to give up slavery at gunpoint - \*\*the south enacted black codes which put black Americans back into a status that was as close to slavery as the law would allow. \*\* And the south didn’t give that up voluntarily either. What’s this “south” you speak of? Do you mean AMERICAN STATES? And whose “law”? Do you mean AMERICAN, and NOT CONFEDERATE, law? Impossible! Such things couldn’t have happened under the Stars and Stripes, only under that heinous Battle Flag. Are you whooshing me? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050/100 "2015-06-21T22:15:48Z")
To the extent that the Civil War was about states’ rights at all, the South was against it. At the time, part of the country wanted each state to be able to decide on their own whether to allow slavery or not, and part of the country found that unacceptable and wanted all states to allow slavery. Guess which part was which? > [@](#): > > Quoth **Jackmanii** : > > Barbecue, baby…with sides of cornbread and collard greens. I considered mentioning barbecue, but then we’d have another Civil War over which regional variation would get the nod. And cornbread, I maintain, is properly a symbol of the entire USA. I’m with you on the sweet tea, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-hood-heritage-not-hate/723050.md?page=6)