# The White Sox - A Brutal Truth **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [April 16, 2024, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363 "2024-04-16T12:30:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/221 "2024-07-28T20:50:44Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Plus the stress goes away after a while. Once you accept your team is bad, the losses are easier to handle. Yep. I remember a stretch back in the 80s when the Dodgers absolutely stank. Had to be during the McCourt years. You just entered each game with the question “How are they going to blow it today?” Made a fun betting game with your buddies. My standard bet was “Fielders running into each other.” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/222 "2024-07-28T21:09:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The Sox lost a 13th straight to go to 27-80. With today’s loss to the Mariners, it’s now 14 straight, tying the 14-loss streak which they had in May-June. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2024, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/223 "2024-07-29T01:25:08Z")
Sox are 27-81, a winning percentage of .250. They are on pace to win 41 (actually 40.5) games, which is damn close to the 1962 Mets, who won 40. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2024, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/224 "2024-07-29T01:41:53Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > They are on pace to win 41 (actually 40.5) games, which is damn close to the 1962 Mets, who won 40. And if they, as expected, deal away Crochet, Fedde, and Robert Jr. in the next few days, they may well wind up playing even worse in the absolute than they have to date. Without those three, their overall bWAR for batters is -6.7, and for pitchers, it’s 0.6. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2024, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/225 "2024-07-29T01:53:16Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > When was the last time a team hadn’t won 30 games by the All-Star Break? Last season’s Oakland squad didn’t hit 30 games until August, I think. John Fisher has a lot to answer for. ETA: Upon review, I was mistaken. They got to 30 not in August but _almost_ a year ago on July 29th. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2024, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/226 "2024-07-29T11:44:51Z")
We haven’t won a game since the All Star break and have been swept in three series in a row. If we can’t find a way to win in the Kansas City series here at home, we will have been shut out for the rest of July after the break. Has any other team ever gone “0 for July” after the All Star break? ---
**Author:** ![Ponch8](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponch8/32/9883_2.png) [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2024, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/227 "2024-07-29T13:42:37Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > And if they, as expected, deal away Crochet, Fedde, and Robert Jr. in the next few days, they may well wind up playing even worse in the absolute than they have to date. Without those three, their overall bWAR for batters is -6.7, and for pitchers, it’s 0.6. A few weeks ago, I saw that their overall team WAR was below zero, meaning that they are worse than a random collection of replacement-level AAA players and unsigned free agents. How often has an entire MLB team had a negative WAR? ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2024, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/228 "2024-07-29T17:26:08Z")
In the last three years, the worst team at the All-Star break (A’s, Nationals, Dbacks) did better in the second half of the season than the first. So, there’s a glimmer of hope that the final tally won’t be quite as bad as predicted. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/229 "2024-07-29T18:06:22Z")
It looks like Fedde is gone; ESPN’s trade deadline tracker is reporting that the Sox, Cardinals, and Dodgers have agreed to a three-team deal, in which Fedde will wind up with the Cardinals. Edit: Update – I’ve just heard on WBBM radio that reliever Michael Kopech and outfielder Tommy Pham are also being traded away in the deal. > **[MLB trade deadline tracker: Your one-stop shop for rumors, news, buzz and more](https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40597054/2024-mlb-trade-deadline-tracker-rumors-news-latest-updates-analysis)** > > Which stars will get traded? Which contenders will make the biggest splash? Here's our latest intel as 6 p.m. ET on Tuesday approaches. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/230 "2024-07-30T04:34:28Z")
27-82. On pace for 40-122. They can do it! If in fact they have dealt Fedde, Kopech and Pham, they’re now a much WORSE team. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/231 "2024-07-30T04:43:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If in fact they have dealt Fedde, Kopech and Pham, they’re now a much WORSE team. Looks to be official. [On the MLB.com web site](https://www.mlb.com/news/erick-fedde-to-cardinals-tommy-edman-to-dodgers-in-3-team-trade): > [@](#): > > **TRADE DETAILS** > **Cardinals receive:** RHP Erick Fedde, OF Tommy Pham and cash (from White Sox), player to be named later or cash (from Dodgers) > **Dodgers receive:** RHP Michael Kopech (from White Sox), INF/OF Tommy Edman and RHP prospect Oliver Gonzalez (from Cardinals) > **White Sox receive:** INF/OF Miguel Vargas, INF prospect Jeral Perez (LAD No. 17 prospect), INF prospect Alexander Albertus (LAD No. 23 prospect), player to be named later or cash (from Dodgers) Crochet and Robert Jr. are still with the Sox as of tonight; [Crochet’s apparent demands](https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40676297/white-sox-gm-getz-taken-aback-crochet-camp-usage-stance) for a contract extension, and a guarantee of being a starter, if his new team expects him to pitch in the playoffs, have possibly complicated his trade situation. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/232 "2024-07-30T10:14:38Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > 27-82. Sox had a 5-2 lead over KC with one out in the top of the 8th. I was already bemoaning the fact that they were going to break their 14-game losing streak against my Royals. Not to worry. KC hit 3 home runs, including a grand slam by budding superstar Bobby Witt, Jr., and won 8-5. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/233 "2024-07-30T12:55:48Z")
“Budding?” Witt is the best player in the American League. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/234 "2024-07-30T13:00:45Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > > [@RickJay](#): > > > > 27-82. > > Sox had a 5-2 lead over KC with one out in the top of the 8th. I was already bemoaning the fact that they were going to break their 14-game losing streak against my Royals. The White Sox are still on target to win more than 40 games. 40.2 games, in fact. And only 32 games back of a wild card slot. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/235 "2024-07-30T13:02:15Z")
Best? By what measurement? He is a top player certainly and a hits machine, but I think Judge at very least better and Soto and Gunnar Henderson are at the same level. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/236 "2024-07-30T13:03:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Witt is the best player in the American League. Because I watch him every game, I tend to agree, although as I just posted in another thread, Aaron Judge will probably win the AL MVP. And I don’t think that Witt has quite achieved superstar status just yet. He’s only 24 and is in just his 3rd season. His career BA is .286. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/237 "2024-07-30T18:28:07Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > And I don’t think that Witt has quite achieved superstar status just yet. He’s only 24 and is in just his 3rd season. His career BA is .286. In my experience, a player needs a couple of years of sustained success before they are called a “superstar”. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/238 "2024-07-30T19:01:12Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > a player needs a couple of years of sustained success before they are called a “superstar”. Quite so. Hence my use of the term ‘budding superstar’. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/239 "2024-07-30T19:02:18Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Hence my use of the term ‘budding superstar’. Yup. Not meant as a pejorative I’m sure, in fact you’re implying he will be one once he is more established. Nobody is a superstar on day one. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/240 "2024-07-30T19:15:51Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > in fact you’re implying he will be one once he is more established. Exactly. Back on topic, sorta: In four games against the White Sox since the All-Star break, Witt Jr. is hitting .812 (13-for-16) with two home runs and seven RBIs. This was at least the 12th game this season that the White Sox have had a 3-run-or-greater lead and lost the game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363.md?page=13)