# The White Sox - A Brutal Truth **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [April 16, 2024, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363 "2024-04-16T12:30:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/341 "2024-08-08T02:05:12Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Not to derail the thread about all the other problems with the franchise but what’s wrong with the ballpark other than it changes names every five years. It’s 33 years old now, which may seem young, but by modern sports stadium standards, it’s getting up there in age. It’s had a significant series of renovations, but most of those were now about 20 years ago. Part of the knock on it is that it was the last stadium built before Baltimore’s Camden Yards ushered in a more retro approach to the look and feel of modern stadiums, and it’s often been seen as kind of sterile. > **[The White Sox Need a New, Old-School Park](https://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/the-white-sox-need-a-new-old-school-park/)** > > Guaranteed Rate Field was built right before the retro ballpark movement, and it lacks the cozy atmosphere that could make it a destination. > [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Is it the Southside location? Is there no no other entertainment in the area, unlike Wrigleyville? It’s not a wonderful neighborhood, and yeah, especially compared to Wrigleyville, there’s little reason to stick around the stadium area before or after a game. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/342 "2024-08-08T02:05:32Z")
It’s a boring, generic ballpark located in a parking lot off the interstate, but no, there’s IMO nothing fundamentally wrong with it. But owners these days seem to feel entitled to a new stadium every twenty years or so. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/343 "2024-08-08T02:16:48Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > But owners these days seem to feel entitled to a new stadium every twenty years or so. For better or for worse, every new or significantly renovated stadium ups the game, as far as amenities and attractions for fans. Teams that are playing in older\* parks feel that they’re behind the curve, as far as having ways to attract fans to come, stay, and spend money. \*- Wrigley and Fenway being the two exceptions, and even they have done some substantial renovations in recent years. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/344 "2024-08-08T11:45:35Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I just drove past it last week, and from my admittedly brief glance from the Dan Ryan it looked perfectly adequate. You’re right. In fact, at only 33 years of age, it is still a good stadium. Yo, Jerry! Try putting a good product in the stadium you have instead of demanding a new stadium for a tired, losing team. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/345 "2024-08-08T12:08:39Z")
I’ve been inside. It is a fine stadium. A large easy concourse. I’m guessing he just wants more luxury suites. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/346 "2024-08-08T12:19:42Z")
The stadium itself is part of it, but really the new trend in stadiums is the adjacent retail space. There’s some real money to be made from that rather than isolated ballparks in the middle of a sea of parking lots right off some highway. If it was just the stadium by itself, Wrigley and Fenway show that extensive renovations can be made to existing structures if the desire was there. But those are already closer to prime nearby real estate/retail. And that’s part of what happened in Oakland. John Fisher was very interested in developing some space on the waterfront and that part fell through. It’s rarely _just_ about the stadiums anymore and more about the general grift…um “economic development opportunities”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/347 "2024-08-08T12:37:33Z")
Note they had a rather bold design on the drawing board (basically a close copy of the Polo Grounds, rectangular outfield short foul lines deep power alleys huge CF), but that plan fell through and they got this generic thing instead. Edit: [link to article](https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/the-white-sox-ballpark-in-chicago-that-never-was-and-could-have-changed-history/), ballpark diagram halfway down the page. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/348 "2024-08-08T13:03:52Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > the new trend in stadiums is the adjacent retail space This is EXACTLY what is happening in Kansas City. The Royals and Chiefs have two fine stadiums that sit next to each other, surrounded by parking lots and next to the intersection of two major interstate highways. Great location for the fans and easy to get in and out. The stadiums are fifty years old but have undergone major renovations and are still great places in which to watch professional sports. But the owners of the teams want to build new stadiums closer to downtown where the hotels, bars, and restaurants are located. And of course they’re threatening to leave if they don’t get their way. /end rant ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/349 "2024-08-08T14:15:14Z")
Pedro Grifol is out; the Sox fired him this morning, two days after the team broke the 21-game losing streak. > **[White Sox fire Grifol after AL record-tying skid](https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40777036/white-sox-fire-manager-pedro-grifol-al-record-tying-skid)** > > The White Sox have fired manager Pedro Grifol. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/350 "2024-08-08T14:29:14Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > the Sox fired him this morning Weird timing, in that the Sox have been playing .500 baseball lately. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/351 "2024-08-08T14:37:41Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Weird timing, in that the Sox have been playing .500 baseball lately. I’m not sure a sample size of 2 games counts 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/352 "2024-08-08T14:40:07Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I’m not sure a sample size of 2 games counts If you’re a Sox fan, I’m sure you’ll take anything. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/353 "2024-08-08T17:11:48Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > But the owners of the teams want to build new stadiums closer to downtown where the hotels, bars, and restaurants are located. Oh, for God’s sake! If it is that big an issue, did it ever occur to them to provide free shuttle service before and after games? Besides, KC is not New York, Chicago, or LA. How far from downtown KC can anything be? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/354 "2024-08-08T17:14:53Z")
About 9 miles or 13 minutes when the traffic is light. Also the lack of buildable land never enters the thoughts of some of these Billionaires. I guess they’re aiming for taking a good chunk of Penn Valley Park. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/355 "2024-08-08T18:05:08Z")
That is, interestingly enough, why the Blue Jays poured some $300-$400 million into renovating the dome; there is simply nowhere else downtown you could build a huge baseball stadium. The existing location cannot be improved upon - it’s as well located a stadium as any MLB park - but you can’t knock it down and build another in the same place in one offseason, and you can’t find anywhere else nearby. So, there they shall remain. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/356 "2024-08-08T18:06:59Z")
Even the new Yankee Stadium was built right next door. There’s just not a lot of room if you’re already in the middle of a city. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/357 "2024-08-08T18:15:12Z")
The breakup/fire sale begins! ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/358 "2024-08-08T18:22:44Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > How far from downtown KC can anything be? Not far, as has been noted. But when you go to a game in Wrigley, after the game you walk out and walk to a nearby bar. When you go to a game in Kauffman (Royals stadium), you walk out, get into your car, and drive home, not to the Power and Light District where all the bars are. There are shuttle services, to be sure, but the vast majority of fans drive or Uber to the stadium. I am not defending the proposal, just stating what I’ve heard about it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2024, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/359 "2024-08-09T19:59:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Guaranteed Rate Field was built right before the retro ballpark movement, and it lacks the cozy atmosphere that could make it a destination But the ballpark has a wonderful retro name. Hail to thee, oh Guaranteed Rate Field. For an optimally retro _and_ cozy atmosphere they could build a replica of Philadelphia’s Baker Bowl. Think of the excitement 15 home runs a game would bring, provided there were enough left-handed hitters in the lineup. > **[Baker Bowl History | Baseball Almanac](https://www.baseball-almanac.com/stadium/Baker_Bowl.shtml)** > > The Baker Bowl history, statistical ballpark information, by Baseball Almanac. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2024, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/360 "2024-08-10T13:29:45Z")
The Cubs spoiled Grady Sizemore’s managerial debut, but it was a close call. The Cubs were up 7-0, but the Sox clawed back to 7-6 before Andrew Vaughn flied out to center field with the bases loaded to end the game. Andrew Benintendi hit two home runs during their rally. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363.md?page=19)