# The White Sox - A Brutal Truth **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [April 16, 2024, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363 "2024-04-16T12:30:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2024, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/361 "2024-08-10T17:56:11Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Think of the excitement 15 home runs a game would bring, provided there were enough left-handed hitters in the lineup. Oddly, it was a righthander, Gavvy Cravath, who most took advantage of it. Greatest power hitter most fans have never heard of. He won six home run titles despite not playing full time in the majors until he was 31, and held the modern era record for homers in a season before Babe Ruth. He also held the modern NL RBI record before Rogers Hornsby. No one was better at exploiting the Baker Bowl. Of his 117 bombs, 93 (!!!) were at home. When he led the NL in homers with 19 in 1914, he hit every one of them at home. Given that no one else could use the stadium like he did, that’s genuine value, not just an illusion of context. His real name was Clifford. “Gavvy” - or “Gavy,” as he spelled it and sometimes others did too - is short for “gaviota,” the Spanish word for seagull, a name he picked up - allegedly - by accidentally hitting a seagull with a ball when he played in the PCL. So I’m not sure why we didn’t have Gavvy Winfield. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2024, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/362 "2024-08-10T18:04:45Z")
I was thinking of Hall of Famer Chuck Klein, [who put up gaudy power numbers with the Phillies](https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/Chuck-Klein/), playing in the Baker Bowl from 1929-33. > [@](#): > > It was clear that Klein and the Baker Bowl were made for each other. The right field wall was only 280 feet from home plate, and just 300 feet to the right-center power alley. Although the wall itself was 60 feet high, the statistics clearly show that Klein took full advantage of the park’s cozy dimensions. During his five-plus years with the Phillies, Klein hit .420 at home and .296 on the road. His power differentials were equally staggering: in roughly the same number of at-bats, Klein totaled 131 home runs and 469 RBI at Baker Bowl, while hitting just 60 homers and 259 RBI in road games. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2024, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/363 "2024-08-10T18:10:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > For an optimally retro _and_ cozy atmosphere they could build a replica of Philadelphia’s Baker Bowl. FWIW, MLB wouldn’t allow a new park to have such dimensions: > [@](#): > > The rulebook states that parks constructed by professional teams after June 1, 1958, must have a minimum distance of 325 feet between home plate and the nearest fence, stand or other obstruction on the right- and left-field foul lines, and 400 feet between home plate and the nearest fence, stand or other obstruction in center field. However, some clubs have been permitted to construct parks after that date with dimensions shorter than those specified. > [@](#): > > The specification on minimum park dimensions was put into place due to the stadium controversy surrounding the Brooklyn Dodgers’ move to Los Angeles in 1958. The Dodgers played at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum while Dodger Stadium was being built, but the Coliseum was not designed to hold baseball games. The Coliseum’s left-field fence was roughly 250 feet away from home plate and the club had to erect a 40-foot-high screen to protect against short home runs. The specification is not strictly enforced, however, so long as teams do not build parks that egregiously violate the rule. For example, Petco Park opened in 2004 and is officially 396 feet in center field, and Oriole Park at Camden Yards opened in 1992 and is 318 feet down the right-field line. > **[Field Dimensions | Glossary | MLB.com](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/rules/field-dimensions)** > > The Official Site of Major League Baseball ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/364 "2024-08-12T11:27:43Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Guaranteed Rate Field was built right before the retro ballpark movement, and it lacks the cozy atmosphere that could make it a destination I’m thinking that an exciting, winning team would also “make it a destination”. I’m definitely into substance over form. LOL ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/365 "2024-08-12T15:16:18Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > I’m thinking that an exciting, winning team would also “make it a destination”. Well, at a certain level, yes. But, even in 2005, when the Sox won the World Series, and the Cubs were a .500 team, the Sox _still_ were outdrawn by the Cubs by 25% (2.3 million to 3.1 million). From the viewpoint of team ownership, what I’m sure that they would like is, as has been noted, other team-controlled attractions in the stadium area (restaurants, bars, etc.), which would be an additional source of revenue, on game days and throughout the year. It’s what the Cubs are doing now with Gallagher Way, it’s what the Braves have done, etc. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/366 "2024-08-12T17:01:41Z")
I can see attendance rising as the Sox near the ‘magic number’. Will they or won’t they? All part of the process. A solid 1 and 9 in their last 10 games. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/367 "2024-08-12T17:23:47Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > I can see attendance rising as the Sox near the ‘magic number’. Will they or won’t they? All part of the process. Ehh, maybe at the game where a loss would break the record. Otherwise, I think it’s mostly, “why would I bother going to a bad game to see a team that’s likely to get spanked?” ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/368 "2024-08-12T17:27:34Z")
At some point it’s going to be the novelty of paying less than $10 (mostly going to various vendor fees) for a ticket. Combine that with a dollar dog night or similar promotion, and they might actually draw a decent sized crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/369 "2024-08-12T18:14:01Z")
If I was in town and the Sox were playing, I’d go. So there’s one more hypothetical attendee. Might put them over the top. I love visiting new stadiums, and it’s fun to watch a game once in a while where I have no rooting interest. Plus, I’ve already been to Wrigley three times. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/370 "2024-08-13T11:29:53Z")
Last night Grady Sizemore got his first win as the new Sox manager. The team set season highs with 12 runs and 18 hits as the Sox pounded the Yanks 12-2. As a lifelong hater of the Yankees, I approve of this effort. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/371 "2024-08-13T11:32:30Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > The team set season highs with 12 runs and 18 hits as the Sox pounded the Yanks 12-2. As the old saying goes, “Even a blind pig will find mud once in a while.” 😊 ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/372 "2024-08-13T14:52:40Z")
The Yanks had 9 hits and 11 walks…and scored two runs. _And_ the White Sox made two errors! I’m so glad I didn’t watch that baseballus interruptus clusterfuck of a game. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/373 "2024-08-13T15:01:15Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The Yanks had 9 hits and 11 walks…and scored two runs. _And_ the White Sox made two errors! I missed those stats, so I just looked at the box score again. The Yanks left 16 runners on base, and were 2 for 18 with runners in scoring position. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/374 "2024-08-13T15:05:39Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > The Yanks left 16 runners on base, and were 2 for 18 with runners in scoring position. Sizemore knows how to manage his pitchers! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/375 "2024-08-15T01:44:26Z")
Man, you guys who were criticizing the Sox have to be pretty embarrassed now! ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/376 "2024-08-15T11:31:34Z")
Yep, Sizemore’s 1-4 record sure has me back peddling. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2024, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/377 "2024-08-16T00:00:01Z")
Last guy was running close to a 1-3 average, right? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2024, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/378 "2024-08-16T00:07:53Z")
Just under it. Pedro Grifol had a .239 winning percentage for the season at the time of his firing. The Sox are now 29-93, for a .238 percentage, putting them on a pace for 38.6 wins on the season. Rounding up, that’d be a 39-123 record. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2024, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/379 "2024-08-16T11:40:05Z")
Note: We did NOT lose last night! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2024, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/380 "2024-08-17T22:28:42Z")
Even though I’m a Seattle area resident, married to a lifelong fan, and am myself a casual fan, I still find it more fun and less stressful to root for the Sox to lose than to root for the Mariners to win. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363.md?page=20)