# The White Sox - A Brutal Truth **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [April 16, 2024, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363 "2024-04-16T12:30:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/501 "2024-09-06T04:50:19Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > angels got lucky but their best thing this season is “they aint the white sox” They’re not even the worst team not named the White Sox. Miami and Colorado are battling for the second-worst record; both have 52 wins. Angels have the fourth worst, with 58 wins. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/502 "2024-09-06T11:32:34Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > They’re not even the worst team not named the White Sox. We try to be the best at whatever we do, and “whatever we do” is usually lose. 😐 ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/503 "2024-09-06T12:05:51Z")
As bad as the White Sox are this year, there are teams that are worse. The San Marino soccer team just won its first match in _20 years_. [CBS Sports](https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/san-marino-win-first-match-in-20-years-as-fifas-lowest-ranked-team-edges-lichtenstein-for-historic-feat/) ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/504 "2024-09-06T12:17:26Z")
Liechtenstein will never hear the end of the jokes and barbs. LOL ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/505 "2024-09-06T14:41:39Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > They’re not even the worst team not named the White Sox. Miami and Colorado are battling for the second-worst record; both have 52 wins. Angels have the fourth worst, with 58 wins. I was watching the Blue Jays - Angels games a few weeks ago and found myself just blown away that the Angels were more than 20 games ahead of the Sox because holy shit the Angels are a miserable team. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/506 "2024-09-06T16:53:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I was watching the Blue Jays - Angels games a few weeks ago and found myself just blown away that the Angels were more than 20 games ahead of the Sox because holy shit the Angels are a miserable team. Beyond “miserable” is “historically bad”, and that is the reality at this point. In all honestly, I can’t see how they will lose anything less than 125 games, and there is a distinct possibility it could be worse. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/507 "2024-09-06T18:18:14Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Beyond “miserable” is “historically bad”, and that is the reality at this point. In all honestly, I can’t see how they will lose anything less than 125 games, and there is a distinct possibility it could be worse. I think 125 is the basement. They have 21 games left, and to lose 126 would require finishing 4-17, which is actually below their winning percentage, which itself is unlucky; their Pythagorean is seven games better than their win-loss record. I’ll predict 39-123. I think they’ll have a few surprisingly tolerable series. They get to play the Angels six times. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/508 "2024-09-06T18:28:31Z")
Some more fun White Sox facts: 1. According to Baseball Reference, the team’s fifth best player is Davis Martin, a pitcher who has only appeared in seven games. BR’s claim that Martin has substantial value is dubious to me, though, when you consider the fact that the White Sox have lost every game he played in. 2. There have only been five occasions all year in which the White Sox won two or more games in a row. 3. At this rate the White Sox will score just 496 runs. It has been a VERY long time since a team failed to score 500 runs in a full season. In 1972, five teams failed to do so, but a few of them still would have had a strike not knocked a few games off the schedule. 4. With Tommy Pham gone the White Sox have only two everyday players with on base percentages above .300. With Paul De Jong gone they have no regular players with a slugging percentage above .400. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/509 "2024-09-06T18:34:29Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > BR’s claim that Martin has substantial value is dubious to me, though, when you consider the fact that the White Sox have lost every game he played in. Given the miserable run support their pitchers have (not) gotten, I’m willing to be open minded either way about his true value, despite his loss record, which has grown to be a more dubious stat in recent years and for this White Sox team in particular. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/510 "2024-09-06T18:40:52Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I’m willing to be open minded either way about his true value I think the evidence shows he is a decent pitcher. I don’t think you can say there is actual value in a player who never participated in any wins. IMHO, at a team level, wions above replacement should be tied to wins. That is not how BR does it though; they assign the team’s individual WAR based on its Pythagorean projection. So, the White Sox has a team have a total of 4.0 WAR; the methodology says they are as valuable as a team with 39 wins where a replacement level team would have 35. But they haven’t won 39 games, they’ve won 32. Their team WAR should add up to -3. If one wanted top argue that they actually have 4.0 WAR worth of talent and you should take that into account in projecting future performance, fair enough. But I’d argue the team demonstrably must be below replacement level in value in terms of ACTUAL performance to date, because that is, in fact, how many games they have won. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/511 "2024-09-07T03:27:55Z")
32-110. Twenty games to go; if they don’t play .500 ball, they break the record. This is the most exciting stretch run in MLB. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/512 "2024-09-07T17:32:25Z")
is that just sad or … ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/513 "2024-09-07T17:54:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > if they don’t play .500 ball, they break the record. What is the record? 1962 Mets were 40-120, .250, but didn’t play two rainout games. There are two other teams with poorer winning percentages. The 1916 Athletics finished with a percentage of .235. For the Sox to finish with a lower percentage, they would need to finish no better than 38-124, which would mean going no better than 6-14 in their last 20 games. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/514 "2024-09-07T18:05:37Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > For the Sox to finish with a lower percentage, they would need to finish no better than 38-124, which would mean going no better than 6-14 in their last 20 games. Which would still be a .300 winning percentage, and better than they’ve played all season. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/515 "2024-09-07T18:43:49Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Which would still be a .300 winning percentage, and better than they’ve played all season Oh, exactly. Right now they are playing at a .225 pace, which calculates to 36.5 wins. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/516 "2024-09-07T18:55:04Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Right now they are playing at a .225 pace, which calculates to 36.5 wins. What’s more, they’ve been playing at a .114 win rate (5-39) over the second half of the season, and .160 (4-21) under interim manager Grady Sizemore. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/517 "2024-09-08T02:48:05Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > What is the record? 1962 Mets were 40-120, .250, but didn’t play two rainout games. I’d just be happy with the loss record. Winning percentage, meh. Sox lost 7-5 tonight. 33-111, They’re now tied for the 11th most losses ever in modern MLB history, with a bunch of other teams. Still on pace for 125 losses. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/518 "2024-09-08T03:04:01Z")
Looking ahead, after finishing the series against the Red Sox on Sunday, they will have 18 games left, against the following (all are three-game series): - Guardians - A’s - @ Angels - @ Padres - Angels - @ Tigers So, half of their remaining games are against bad teams (though neither the A’s nor the Angels are nearly as bad as the Sox). And, at least for next week’s games in Chicago, there’s no rain in the forecast, so the odds of losing a game to weather next week are pretty slim. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/519 "2024-09-08T20:27:19Z")
White Sox now on a 1-game winning streak, after beating the Red Sox 7-2 on Sunday. Now 33-111, .229 winning percentage. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363/520 "2024-09-08T21:17:23Z")
I don’t feel like looking this up, but when was the last time the White Sox strung two together? Three? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-white-sox-a-brutal-truth/1000363.md?page=27)