# The Who vs. Led Zeppelin **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 14, 2007, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984 "2007-12-14T12:01:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/181 "2012-07-28T18:53:39Z")
Apparently Bradley Wiggins is a Who fan. His tweet after doing his bit for the Olympic opening ceremony yesterday:_ **"BELL BOY,BELL BOY!!!"** _ ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/182 "2012-07-28T19:51:11Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Anyone get pre-sale tickets to The Who’s upcoming _Quadrophenia_ tour? Yep. Seeing them in Brookyn in November. Wicked psyched. ETA: fourth time to see them. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/183 "2012-07-29T01:14:26Z")
About a month ago I got a Who documentary for my birthday on the making of Who’s Next. I just watched it and found myself impressed as always, particularly by the segments where they isolated individual members of the group during recording sessions. Great stuff. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/184 "2012-07-29T06:28:29Z")
They’re before my time, really. I didn’t really know who they were until after their drummers were dead and satirized by Spinal Tap. In fact, there’s my answer: Spinal Tap, because they seemed actually to believe that there were Flower People, and that we should listen to them. No, seriously, I have an odd view because I came at these guys backwards. I know Daltrey as a comic actor, Townshend as a writer (who else has read _Horse’s Neck_?), and Plant from his '80’s stuff (_Now and Zen_, especially). The others I have no especial sense of as personalities. (Well, except for some very superficial and unsavory impressions of about one aspect apiece, and not even that for JPJ.) Zep occupies a deeply weird space for me in that I grew up with their music on the radio, but with a couple of exceptions, didn’t have any idea that the songs I was hearing were theirs. (I know, I should recognize Plant’s voice at least, but lots of hard rock guys sing falsetto, right?) The target audience was older than me and expected to know Zep without it being pointed out. So I didn’t have any sense of them beyond “Black Dog” and “Stairway” for a really long time. It strikes me that one of the songs linked in this thread I would have guessed Billy Joel or some other '70’s pop act, but I would have never thought of Zeppelin. So, I get the impression that Zeppelin seems to have tried to be the blues’ answer to the Beatles. Lots of different stuff, including some dirty percussive blues and some cool folky atmospheric stuff. But the Who (who I know better) seem to have been in a space akin to the Kinks and Queen, doing stuff that became what I know as more highly produced “rock,” not the rough old bluesy stuff that Zep did. But then there’s all that meandering introspective stuff creeping in from _Tommy_ on, which is kind of thin compared to the likes of “Fooled Again.” And “Kashmir” isn’t something you’d hear The Band do. Anyway, I was born too late, and not familiar enough nor enough a music nerd to say, but I pick the Who because I like “Fooled Again” and “Magic Bus” a whole lot. Also their approach to how the songs worked, who was rhythm & who was lead, was unconventional, and that’s fun. > [@Ludovic](#): > > There’d be no point: Floyd would win without any contest 🙂 🙂 > [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > both bands were from roughly the same era, the same fame level, and each was composed of four individuals who are all well-known (to music fans) and played the same roles (mostly.) It wasn’t about the bands’ music style or impact, just a head-to-head comparison of the members. Well, except the Who didn’t play the same roles for their instruments, by their own admission. No lyrical lead guitar as such, for example. So I’m not sure comparing Page to Townsend is quite right, but I don’t know enough to say what is. > [@Docta\_G](#): > > So is Nazism. I don’t like it either. Cheap Nietzsche ripoff artists. > > Oh yes I did. {{{Docta G}}} I like this post. Wait. Docta “G”? Docta _Godwin?_ > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Yes. Geez, **Docta G** , weren’t you ever young? 🙂 No, no, no. Ya hafta do it like this: “Yeah. **Geez, Docta G** , weren’t ya ever young? :)” Possibly in a mezzo-soprano. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/185 "2012-07-29T20:40:00Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > But they did completely lift or substantially borrow a good number songs without credit. Did you see my examples? [Here they are again.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiiY4ciKFQA) I don’t want to get into a whole discussion of LZ as ripoff artists, I just wanted to say earlier that the Taurus/Stairway example didn’t prove anything. But as for your examples, yeah, LZ should have credited earlier artists. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/186 "2012-08-14T17:31:31Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Feh. You’re walking right past the OP, which asserts that both bands are great and asks which do you prefer on a player-by-player basis, and are trying to resposition the discussion about how Zep are ripoff artists. That has been covered as a topic in other threads. Let it go and quit threadshitting. No, I’m saying I like the Who better than LZ, and I gave one good reason: LZ ripped off great music to produce lame, puerile covers. I’m not alone in this opinion. The Who were quite original. Feh, yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/187 "2012-08-14T17:34:50Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > They’re before my time, really. I didn’t really know who they were until after their drummers were dead and satirized by Spinal Tap. In fact, there’s my answer: Spinal Tap, because they seemed actually to believe that there were Flower People, and that we should listen to them. > > No, seriously, I have an odd view because I came at these guys backwards. I know Daltrey as a comic actor, Townshend as a writer (who else has read _Horse’s Neck_?), and Plant from his '80’s stuff (_Now and Zen_, especially). The others I have no especial sense of as personalities. (Well, except for some very superficial and unsavory impressions of about one aspect apiece, and not even that for JPJ.) > > Zep occupies a deeply weird space for me in that I grew up with their music on the radio, but with a couple of exceptions, didn’t have any idea that the songs I was hearing were theirs. (I know, I should recognize Plant’s voice at least, but lots of hard rock guys sing falsetto, right?) The target audience was older than me and expected to know Zep without it being pointed out. So I didn’t have any sense of them beyond “Black Dog” and “Stairway” for a really long time. It strikes me that one of the songs linked in this thread I would have guessed Billy Joel or some other '70’s pop act, but I would have never thought of Zeppelin. > > So, I get the impression that Zeppelin seems to have tried to be the blues’ answer to the Beatles. Lots of different stuff, including some dirty percussive blues and some cool folky atmospheric stuff. > > But the Who (who I know better) seem to have been in a space akin to the Kinks and Queen, doing stuff that became what I know as more highly produced “rock,” not the rough old bluesy stuff that Zep did. > > But then there’s all that meandering introspective stuff creeping in from _Tommy_ on, which is kind of thin compared to the likes of “Fooled Again.” And “Kashmir” isn’t something you’d hear The Band do. > > Anyway, I was born too late, and not familiar enough nor enough a music nerd to say, but I pick the Who because I like “Fooled Again” and “Magic Bus” a whole lot. Also their approach to how the songs worked, who was rhythm & who was lead, was unconventional, and that’s fun.:)Well, except the Who didn’t play the same roles for their instruments, by their own admission. No lyrical lead guitar as such, for example. So I’m not sure comparing Page to Townsend is quite right, but I don’t know enough to say what is.{{{Docta G}}} I like this post. Wait. Docta “G”? Docta \*Godwin?\*No, no, no. Ya hafta do it like this: > “Yeah. **Geez, Docta G** , weren’t ya ever young? :)” Possibly in a mezzo-soprano. I can still play Page’s licks note-for-note, something I learned to do when I was, you know, young. The only difference is that now I play them with my tongue firmly in cheek. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/188 "2012-08-14T17:35:53Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Thanks, **Wordman**. I don’t mind the thread being resurrected and morphing into a “who’s better” thread, but I do love both bands and this is not about trashing either. Truth be told told, I’d pick the\*\* Kinks\*\*, but that’s another topic… I’d pick the Kinks too. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/189 "2012-08-14T17:45:57Z")
Relevant (to this discussion) opinion [piece](http://www.cabindogs.com/ask-cenzi-details/items/Keith_Moon_vs._John_Bonham_comparison_of_two_unique_rock_drummers_from_The_Who_and_Led_Zeppelin.html). ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/190 "2012-08-14T18:02:25Z")
Pete himself might have preferred Bonzo. In the recent Quad documentary, he said “I didn’t think very much of him as a drummer,” and added that Moonie was “certifiably insane”. ---
**Author:** ![fjs1fs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9e8a1a/32.png) [@fjs1fs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fjs1fs)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/191 "2012-08-14T18:23:01Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > I agree with this statement 100%. I saw The Who at MSG shortly after Entwistle died. I was amazed at the power and energy Daltrey still had in his voice. I was at that same concert, or maybe the day before/after, and I have to say DITTO! These guys were about 60 and rocked it better than anyone I’ve ever seen/heard. I never saw Zep live (wish I had the chance), but just about every live cut I ever hear of theirs sounds subpar. I know it’s not the same as being there, but I really just think The Who was the best live hard rock band ever. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/192 "2012-08-14T18:28:08Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > Pete himself might have preferred Bonzo. In the recent Quad documentary, he said “I didn’t think very much of him as a drummer,” and added that Moonie was “certifiably insane”. Since when is insanity problematic for a drummer? I can’t think of a poorer way to compare bands than to compare qualifications at each “position”, as if they were baseball players. Musical ability has never guaranteed the production of memorable songs, which is why (for instance) the Monkees match up favorably with Cream. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/193 "2012-08-14T18:30:09Z")
> [@Docta\_G](#): > > No, I’m saying I like the Who better than LZ, and I gave one good reason: LZ ripped off great music to produce lame, puerile covers. I’m not alone in this opinion. > > The Who were quite original. > > Feh, yourself. Very well then, we contain multitudes. Pretty funny to read your post and then follow it with **SY’s** blog link. That guy loves Moon but would take a bullet for Bonham - so he’s got his POV eh? The Who _were_ wonderfully original. And Zep rocked it, hard and soft. It’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/194 "2012-08-14T19:04:51Z")
I found the whole Quad Doc on dailymotion. Here’s the part where Rog and Pete talk about Moonie the drummer: [http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrvyti\_quadrophenia-can-you-see-the-real-me-2012-1-2\_music?start=2992](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrvyti_quadrophenia-can-you-see-the-real-me-2012-1-2_music?start=2992) ---
**Author:** ![Greekfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@Greekfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greekfreak)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/195 "2012-08-14T19:33:11Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Great thread, I’m glad it got resurrected. > > Could some of the people claiming that Led Zep ripped off other musicians/bands provide some background to that assertion? I have no dog in this fight, would just be interested in hearing some more about it. I believe the guy who really pursued this more recently is called Denny Somack (sp?) and he brought out countless examples of blatant rip-offs, including (but not limited to:) “Babe I’m Gonna Leave You” by Anne Breeden–popularized by Joan Baez (IMO the most blatant theft) “Nervous Breakdown” by Eddy Cochran–you do the math. “Traveling Riverside Blues” by Robert Johnson “Taurus” by Spirit (the intro to 'Stairway…" is copied almost note for note–just another reason for me not to ever listen to it again) “Dazed And Confused” by Jake Holmes (just as blatant) Pretty much makes Zep the greatest cover band of all time after Van Halen. To the original poster, here’s my breakdown: Moon vs. Bonham–Bonham wins on technique, but he played more traditionally. Moon was more jazzy in the way of Mitch Mitchell and he generally played with the vocals. JPJ vs. Entwistle–as players, “The Ox” wins by a mile–he predates all the Billy Sheehans and Les Claypools, and is credited by some great quote as “being a good songwriter in a band with the greatest songwriter ever”. I give points to JPJ for his arranging in the band and later on with Morrissey and R.E.M. and Diamanda Galas. Page vs. Townsend–for sheer chutzpah, Page. On stage though you’d rather watch Pete, not to mention that Page was on the whole, a lot sloppier and got by on his image (that whole bow shit). Townsend had to work much harder and just kicked way more ass on stage. Daltrey vs. Plant–Daltrey again by a mile–just a better frontman, better singer, and has also aged better as a vocalist. One reason why Zep called it quits is because by the Knebworth shows, Percy just couldn’t hack it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/196 "2012-08-14T20:05:08Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Relevant (to this discussion) opinion [piece](http://www.cabindogs.com/ask-cenzi-details/items/Keith_Moon_vs._John_Bonham_comparison_of_two_unique_rock_drummers_from_The_Who_and_Led_Zeppelin.html). That gave me a whole new appreciation for Bonham. Geez, on _Kashmir_ he just completely holds that song together, doesn’t he? > [@blondebear](#): > > I found the whole Quad Doc on dailymotion. Here’s the part where Rog and Pete talk about Moonie the drummer: > > [http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrvyti\_quadrophenia-can-you-see-the-real-me-2012-1-2\_music?start=2992](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrvyti_quadrophenia-can-you-see-the-real-me-2012-1-2_music?start=2992) Sumptin’ wrong with that video (maybe the site doesn’t like Firefox or whatever), but it plays a Twix commercial, then about 2 seconds of the actual video, then plays the Twix commercial again, then 5 seconds of video before jumping back to the Twix commercial… ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/197 "2012-08-14T20:20:06Z")
Huh…works for me with Firefox, but I get the jittering Twix ad when I use IE. Strange. Here’s the link to the beginning of Part 1 without the timestamp jump: [http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrvyti\_quadrophenia-can-you-see-the-real-me-2012-1-2\_music](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrvyti_quadrophenia-can-you-see-the-real-me-2012-1-2_music) The Moonie part starts right around the 50 minute mark, but the whole thing is worth watching if you’re a fan. (it was really cool seeing it on the big screen) ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/198 "2012-08-14T20:43:36Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > Huh…works for me with Firefox, but I get the jittering Twix ad when I use IE. Strange. I’m also on a Mac, though I’ve never noticed any big difference between the Mac and Windows versions (I also have a Windows laptop with the same version of Firefox) with this kind of thing. Weird. > [@](#): > > Here’s the link to the beginning of Part 1 without the timestamp jump: [http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrvyti\_quadrophenia-can-you-see-the-real-me-2012-1-2\_music](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrvyti_quadrophenia-can-you-see-the-real-me-2012-1-2_music) > > The Moonie part starts right around the 50 minute mark, but the whole thing is worth watching if you’re a fan. (it was really cool seeing it on the big screen) And it worked this time. That was good stuff - I liked the bit where Pete’s talking about Moonie’s new Rolls-Royce 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/199 "2012-08-14T20:52:07Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > S > I can’t think of a poorer way to compare bands than to compare qualifications at each “position”, as if they were baseball players. I don’t disagree. The original concept of the thread wasn’t band vs. band. It’s hard to find two such iconic groups of the relatively same era, with the same basic structure, and with a virtuoso at each musical position. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984.md?page=9)