# The Who vs. Led Zeppelin **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 14, 2007, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984 "2007-12-14T12:01:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/121 "2007-12-21T01:32:25Z")
Daltrey spoke about the importance of Robert Plant and Led Zeppelin in the current issue of Classic Rock magazine. Daltrey recalled, “When Zeppelin first came out I thought they were fantastic. They supported us on one of their first gigs in the States in Maryland. I stood on the side of the stage and watched their set and I thought they were brilliant… They were Cream derivative but with a lot more weight. Robert was a rock ‘n’ roll singer. Jack Bruce was really a jazz and blues singer. But Robert knew how to rock.” He went on to explain how Zeppelin came to define the changes in rock which began in the late '60s: “Zeppelin took it to another level. There was a power there. All of a sudden this was a new form of music. The music scene was beginning to get a little bit tired. Even (Jimi) Hendrix… was moving into jazz. Zeppelin regenerated it.” ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/122 "2007-12-21T01:36:03Z")
I wonder if that was the show **Crotalus** mentioned seeing earlier. He said it was in Maryland. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/123 "2007-12-21T22:40:47Z")
[QUOTE=Carson O’Genic] John Bonham always struck me as a timekeeper,a thudder,versus someone who plays with and around the time,like Moon.Some of his fills are startling in their invention .He also had a better grasp of dynamics.. [/QUOTE] As a drummer, I completely disagree with this assessment. Keith moon’s playing was characterized by a certain wildness, looseness, or even sloppiness. You can listen to his drumming and instantly recognize that it is him, even if you dont know the song. The who would not be the who without keith moon and his energetic style of playing has influenced many drummers since. However, Bonham was head and shoulders above moon as far as technique. Songs like good times bad times, where bonham played rapid fire pairs of triplets on a SINGLE bass drum continue to challenge and inspire drummers today. His use of ghost notes on songs like fool in the rain was masterful. He was anything but a “thudder.” Yes, he played with power, but he also had incredible finesse. Listen to his soft, subtle buzz rolls on some of led zeppelins more traditional blues type songs. Bonham left behind a legacy of techniques, not just style. Play a four stroke ruff across the drum set like the fill towards the end of the guitar solo in stairway to heaven or play pairs of triplets on a single bass drum and any experienced drummer will instantly recognize them as bonham licks. Both were great and influential in their own right, but Bonham was a much more skilled drummer. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2007, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/124 "2007-12-22T05:33:18Z")
Two great bands…I feel sorry for future fans that won’t have the chance to experience them in person. They’ll have to settle for (HD?) DVDs with a nice sound system. Too bad. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/125 "2007-12-23T06:14:41Z")
Personally I think the argument is based on a false premise,if you listen to a BAND then you listen to the whole sound not individual bits plus they are chalk and cheese its like comparing Buddy Holly with Jimi Hendrix,The Who started off as a Mod band and Zep is Blues/Hard rock. I love both bands,I think that the Who are incredible but Zep is truly legendary. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/126 "2007-12-23T15:24:33Z")
It all depends on what you’re looking for (as more than one post has already said). I look for a stage show along with my music. So: **Page vs. Townshend** Let’s see, standing around looking cool vs. windmill guitar playing, long-jumping while continuing to play, bending the guitar neck until it’s so loose the strings hang slack, and finally smashing the guitar because what good is it any more anyway? No contest. **Plant vs. Daltrey** Hmmm…wimpy guy singing while standing with legs crossed vs. rock-hard abs & pecs under an open vest, screaming so intensely that his hair flies back, swinging the microphone 30 feet in the air on the cable and catching it for the next phrase. No contest. **Bonham vs. Moon** Rock solid playing vs. grinning like a maniac while spazzing all over the drums (but still playing the parts) and then blowing up the drumset. No contest. **Jones vs. Entwistle** The only one that’s close, but I’ll give it to Entwistle on the basis of the intensity he plays with on stage. **Zep vs. Who** Packing up when the gig is over vs. fist fights before the set even ends. No contest. So, in my little world, it’s Who 5, Zep 0. 🙂 As for me and my house, we will revere The Who. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/127 "2012-07-19T12:04:49Z")
So, Pete Townshend just published a…blog entry? an open letter? on the 10th anniversary of John Entwistle’s death. The full text is [here from their website](http://thewho.com/john-entwistle/). I will quote a couple of paragraphs - will check with the Mods to confirm it isn’t too much text: > [@](#): > > On stage with the Who I often look across and expect to see John standing there scratching the side of his nose and take a resigned deep breath in that characteristically thoughtful way that often presaged a funny story or a blistering bass passage. There has always been talk about how loud we all were, and in particular how John’s massive sound caused problems for us on stage. John was louder than most bass players, there is no question of that. If there were problems it was because both John and Keith competed with Roger for the role of vocalist. I don’t mean that they wanted to be the singer, but rather that they performed like members of an anarchic choir, a street corner singing group, rather than accompanists. > > Over on my side of the stage, when Keith was alive, my musical relationship with John was straightforward. I accompanied him. I accompanied (or rather provided a solid rhythmic backbone) for Keith. I hope I accompanied Roger sometimes. It was only when suddenly, ten years ago, John was gone, that I realised that I had inherited a new job on stage with the Who: to play decorative passages, to fill the gaps, to make long sequences of so-called ‘solos’ musically interesting – because that is what John had done for years, so I had never had to bother. So despite the fact that Pino Palladino is one of my favourite musicians on the planet, and I don’t want John’s sound to return so that I am re-graded again to a mere rhythm guitar player who gets to play an occasional lead line, when I am on stage playing Who music, and Roger is with me, I am always aware of how different our ‘band’ is today. It sounds different, and it feels different. Not better or worse, but very different. We just happen to play the same songs. In posts #11 and #33 of this thread, I was trying to break down how Entwistle and Townshend played - vs. Zep’s JPJ and Jimmy Page. But it is interesting to hear it from the horse’s mouth, if you will. Guess I wasn’t that far off 😉 John Ox Entwistle was an innovative, great player and a perfect foil for Pete, Keith and Roger. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/128 "2012-07-19T17:00:49Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > So, Pete Townshend just published a…blog entry? an open letter? on the 10th anniversary of John Entwistle’s death. The full text is [here from their website](http://thewho.com/john-entwistle/). That definitely sheds some light on something Alex Lifeson of Rush once said. To paraphrase, he said that, for years, he considered Jimmy Page to be the biggest influence on his style. But more recently he got to thinking about it, and he realized Pete Townshend was a bigger influence. He and Pete both play/played in bands with extremely busy rhythm sections, which basically forced both guitarists to take on a more textural, supporting role with their playing. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/129 "2012-07-19T17:14:14Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > That definitely sheds some light on something Alex Lifeson of Rush once said. To paraphrase, he said that, for years, he considered Jimmy Page to be the biggest influence on his style. But more recently he got to thinking about it, and he realized Pete Townshend was a bigger influence. He and Pete both play/played in bands with extremely busy rhythm sections, which basically forced both guitarists to take on a more textural, supporting role with their playing. Totally makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/130 "2012-07-19T17:16:25Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/131 "2012-07-19T17:22:06Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Totally makes sense. Heh. I went back to the first page of this thread and discovered I’d already shared that bit way back in [post #48](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9272589&postcount=48) :smack: ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/132 "2012-07-19T17:23:02Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Heh. I went back to the first page of this thread and discovered I’d already shared that bit way back in [post #48](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9272589&postcount=48) :smack: Actually, I kinda remembered that, but didn’t go back and look. :smack::smack: Gotta love zombie threads. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/133 "2012-07-19T17:44:56Z")
> [@NoCoolUserName](#): > > **Zep vs. Who** Packing up when the gig is over vs. fist fights before the set even ends. > No contest. Two words: Mud Shark. (Actually, I am totally a Who guy too, but be fair. Zep were anything but tame, and Page could certainly do a lot more more with a guitar than Townshend could.) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/134 "2012-07-19T17:49:47Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > (Actually, I am totally a Who guy too, but be fair. Zep were anything but tame, and Page could certainly do a lot more more with a guitar than Townshend could.) I don’t know that I agree with that. Jimmy was a flashier technician, using alternate tunings, slide, and more ambitious lead work, but Townshend was innovating with the guitar in a lot of ways, too, in terms of power chords, playing the amp more than the guitar and his far-more-introspective and ambitious songwriting (don’t get me wrong, Kashmir and other Zep tunes are hugely ambitious sonically, but nothing Zep did approaches Townshend’s instrospection). People want to put Pete at the bottom of 60’s British guitar heroes. I would put him near the top, frankly. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/135 "2012-07-19T18:26:12Z")
I think it really just depends on what you feel like listening to. Without getting into the players in the bands themselves, I’d rather mention (as others have alluded to) the apples v oranges nature of the bands. To me, essentially, The Who is a more straight up, loud, ass-kicking rock and roll band and Zep was more nuanced, with a lot of fantasy elements woven into their lyrics…Zeppelin was more versatile, in my opinion. All eight of the players were some of the best ever at their respective instruments in the history of rock and roll. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/136 "2012-07-19T18:35:55Z")
Heh, this was the lead thread in CS when I opened the Board just now and I thought, “Hey, I started a thread just like that, years ago…” I was good to re-read it. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/137 "2012-07-19T18:39:36Z")
Shit! I didn’t realize I was helping resurrect a zombie! Well…good topic at least! ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/138 "2012-07-19T18:46:20Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Heh, this was the lead thread in CS when I opened the Board just now and I thought, “Hey, I started a thread just like that, years ago…” I was good to re-read it. Yep - sorry if other folks don’t like zombies. I just thought Pete’s comments about Entwistle where well-articulated and also in line with some of the discussion of this thread… ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/139 "2012-07-19T19:07:58Z")
Missed this the first time around but… > [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > No contest whatsoever: everything about the Who (at least until they lost Moony, and their way) was miles above anything to do with Zeppelin. Head: nailed. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984/140 "2012-07-19T19:48:42Z")
It’s kind of interesting for me to see this thread and check with my opinion four and a half years later. My respect for the Who has grown and grown much since then. I will still put Zep above the Who for my tastes, but it really is an apples and oranges comparison, and the Who perhaps better embody the type of music I generally prefer (i.e., more anarchic). To say one was “miles above” the other, to me, is a ridiculous statement, but this is a thread about tastes, and hyperbole rules. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-who-vs-led-zeppelin/429984.md?page=8)