# The Whole Deal With Picard and Locutus
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [January 5, 2003, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758 "2003-01-05T09:05:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Mephisto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mephisto)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/1 "2003-01-05T09:05:12Z")
Remember when the Borg captured Picard and turned him into Locutus? Well, I guess I missed a few episodes, or at least significant chunks of a few episodes, back when I regularly watched _ST:TNG_. I sort of remember a couple _Enterprise_ crew members (Crusher? Worf?) working their way through a Borg cube looking for Picard. I also remember Picard/Locutus menacing the Federation in some way. But other than that . . .
Anyway, how did the Borg capture Picard? How exactly did the Feds get him back? And how did they disassimilate (I guess that would be the word) the good captain once they reclaimed him?
Thanks in advance and have a great day!
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### Author:  [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/2 "2003-01-05T09:23:13Z")
I don’t remember all the details, and I’m sure someone will be along to provide them, but I’ll start you off with what I remember. The Enterprise got Locutus back, but were unable to “unplug” him. (IIRC, the Borg were arrogant and weren’t too worried about Locutus getting away, because they were in control of his mind). However, the Enterprise crew did manage to access Picard’s mind (beneath the Borg programming) enough so that he could say a couple of words. Picard said the word “sleep” which was enough of a clue to allow Data to deduce that they needed to invoke a regeneration routine in the Borg collective, which effectively shut them down for a little while, giving the Enterprise enough time to nab Picard and get the hell out of there.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/3 "2003-01-05T11:35:28Z")
The key thing to remember is this: _every Borg episode has at least one plot point that contradicts a plot point in an earlier Borg episode_.
Picard was captured, “assimilated” and then used as a spokesman/consultant for the imminent Earth invasion. The name “Locutus” (Latin for “one who speaks”) comes out of nowhere.
The recapture of Picard went something like: _Enterprise_ divides into saucer and hull sections, mounts double-attack on Borg cube, shuttlecraft carrying Data and Worf sneaks up during distraction, nabs Picard and sneaks out. During their examination of Picard, the “sleep” clue was given and Data managed to send a temporary shutdown command to the cube. The subsequent overload that destroys the cube happens for reasons unclear (to me) but when the cube went kablooie, the implication was that de-Borgifying Picard was a relatively straightforward surgical procedure.
Many of these points are handily contradicted in later _TNG_ and _Voyager_ episodes, notably:
[ul][li]Borg never refer to themselves as “I” or get individual names (as oposed to numeric designations), unless some really serious problem is happening.[/li][li]Cutting a drone off from the collective does not give them instant individuality.[/li]Borg implants are **not** easily removed. At least, not all of them.[/ul]
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### Author:  [@HomeSlice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HomeSlice)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/4 "2003-01-05T15:20:51Z")
[QUOTE]
\*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \*
\*\*
Many of these points are handily contradicted in later _TNG_ and _Voyager_ episodes, notably:
[ul][li]Borg never refer to themselves as “I” or get individual names (as oposed to numeric designations), unless some really serious problem is happening.[/li][li]Cutting a drone off from the collective does not give them instant individuality.[/li][li]Borg implants are **not** easily removed. At least, not all of them.[/ul] \*\*[/li][/QUOTE]
You must realize that Picard was a Borg for only a short period of time whereas 7 of 9 was in the collective her whole life.
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### Author:  [@Global\_Citizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Global_Citizen)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/5 "2003-01-05T17:33:04Z")
I have **a lot** of issues with Star Trek, _BUT_…
In that episode there is a scene where Picard talks with Gainan. At one point he says (roughly, this is by memory only) “When the Roman Emperor Honoraius (er, is this the right emperor?) looked over the ridge and saw the Vandals, did he know that marked the end of the Roman Empire?” (I’m sorry that the quote is not exact, but it’s the best I can remember.)
Anyway, that line is one the **BEST** lines ever in any Star Trek episode. I always laugh when I see it because Patrick Stewart delivers it with such authority.
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### Author:  [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/6 "2003-01-05T18:01:50Z")
Incidentally, are the Borg known to have operated earlier than the 21st Century? When did Guinan’s people encounter them?
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### Author:  [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/7 "2003-01-05T19:33:40Z")
Off the subject a little, but the first Borg eppisode had a Borg nursary. Later on, Picard becomes a Borg by getting sergical implants. Then, in First Contact and other Star Trek series, they can assimilate by injecting nanites into people.
As for regaining indivuality, breaking one away from the collective does eventually do that, as with Hugh and 7 of 9.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/8 "2003-01-05T20:05:13Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Krokodil \*
> \*\*Incidentally, are the Borg known to have operated earlier than the 21st Century? When did Guinan’s people encounter them? \*\*
A bunch of refugees, including Guinan and Soran (played by Malcolm McDowell), are running from the Borg when they encounter the “Nexus”, along with Kirk and the _Enterprise-B_ at the 23rd-century beginning of _Star Trek Generations_.
Oddly, it didn’t occur to them to tell their rescuers about the Borg, even though one of them, Kirk, had valiantly sacrificed himselfto save them.
Ungrateful immortal bastards.
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### Author:  [@Mephisto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mephisto)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/9 "2003-01-05T20:42:39Z")
Thanks all.
I sure hope Picard’s recovery wasn’t just some five minute deal at the end of a show. At the very least you’d think somebody who went from an individual to an entity at least partially subsumed into a giant and alien collective mind, and then back again would require a couple decades in a mental institution. Or at least an episode in Troi’s office. I imagine Picard would have experienced something like schizophrenia, followed by a pretty good dose of PTSD.
Please tell me that he didn’t just get up after the implants were taken out, walk onto the bridge, and say, “Off to the Neutral Zone, Mister Data . . . Engage . . .”
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/10 "2003-01-05T21:17:50Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Mephisto \*
> I imagine Picard would have experienced something like schizophrenia, followed by a pretty good dose of PTSD.
The episode immediately following this one, “Family”, showed Picard returning to his family vinyard in France and undergoing some soul searching and guilt, and he only calms down after getting into a massive knock-down, drag-out brawl with his older brother, Robért. The treatment of the PTSD subject was superficial at best, but it was quite probably the only time we saw a _Trek_ character who’d suffered actual repercussions from some major personal trauma. All other times it was “Well, that wasn’t any fun being tortured and maimed, but the episode’s over, so I may as well get back to work!”
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### Author:  [@Gartog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gartog)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/11 "2003-01-05T21:18:08Z")
No, I belive the next episode was the one entitled family where they returned to Earth and showed Picard coping and also reconciling with his brother. . .
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### Author:  [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/12 "2003-01-05T21:19:10Z")
In the following episode, “Family”, Picard spends an entire episode in France with his brother and nephew. I think he’s even offered a civilian job in archealogy where people are attempting to raise a continental landmass in the Atlantic… presumably Atlatntis.
Other than that. it’s a notable episode because it’s the only TNG show to have not even one shot of the bridge.
So, yeah… they did try and let him recuperate.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/13 "2003-01-05T21:26:49Z")
Ha-ha, my warp speed geekery was faster than **your** warp-speed geekery.
[sub]GLAVIN![/sub]
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### Author:  [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/14 "2003-01-05T21:28:52Z")
Yeah, but mine had more obscure geekery!
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/15 "2003-01-05T22:06:39Z")
Ah, but I spelled Picard’s brother’s name correctly, which the official credits didn’t even do. I’m geeking in two languages!
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### Author:  [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/16 "2003-01-05T22:54:34Z")
Mephisto, to answer one of your original quesitons, in the episode in which the Enterprise encounters the Borg, the borg are able to transport a boarding party directly in the bridge of the Enterprise. The first wave gets blasted by phasers, but then they adapt, grab Picard, and transport out.
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### Author:  [@Mephisto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mephisto)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/17 "2003-01-05T23:19:11Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \*
> \*\*The episode immediately following this one, “Family”, showed Picard returning to his family vinyard in France and undergoing some soul searching and guilt, and he only calms down after getting into a massive knock-down, drag-out brawl with his older brother, Robért. The treatment of the PTSD subject was superficial at best, but it was quite probably the only time we saw a _Trek_ character who’d suffered actual repercussions from some major personal trauma. All other times it was “Well, that wasn’t any fun being tortured and maimed, but the episode’s over, so I may as well get back to work!” \*\*
Okay. I saw “Family” many years ago–I guess I didn’t realize that this was the episode immediately following Picard’s adventure in communal living. Or, if I did realize, I forgot that I realized. I barely remember that episode, but I do remember him fighting with his brother (well, I remember him fighting with family and I’m assuming now it was his brother). I also remember the lure of archaeology, which was, after all, his first love, wasn’t it? Not that he loved digging stuff up more than Star Fleet–I’m speaking chronologically. Didn’t people (old teachers and stuff) try to seduce Picard away from Star Fleet with archaeology in more than one episode? I seem to remember that being the case near the end of the series when they found out that the panspermia theory was correct and that Klingons, Romulans, and Earthlings all had a common ancestor . . . or at least a common relative.
Regarding them not showing cases of PTSD . . . didn’t they actually show Picard very badly shaken after they tortured him on Cardassia? “How many lights do you see, Jean-Luc?” I remember that episode (it was a two-parter, right?) ending with a very not-right Jean-Luc Picard initiating a counceling session with Troi.
Of course, the crew of the Enterprises and the people of DS9 have, to greater or lesser degrees, endured some incredibly harrowing ordeals. I think the powers-that-be have failed in most cases to show realistic reactions to some of these psychological traumas.
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2003, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/18 "2003-01-06T04:08:20Z")
But in the episode _Dallas_, Picard wakes up next to Riker and realises it was all just a dream…
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### Author:  [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2003, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/19 "2003-01-06T04:18:17Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Borg implants are not easily removed. At least, not all of them.
I distinctly remember–perhaps in one of the movies–Picard saying that he still had a lot of the Borg hardware in his body.
Dr. J
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### Author:  [@SC\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC_Wolf)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2003, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-deal-with-picard-and-locutus/146758/20 "2003-01-06T04:59:23Z")
For what it’s worth, the movie _First Contact_ showed that the emotional reprocusions of Picard’s experience lingered a bit longer than the next episode.
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