# The whole nine yards **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [September 27, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/597781 "2011-09-27T18:26:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![T.S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@T.S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.S)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/597781/1 "2011-09-27T18:26:32Z")
Being something of a military historian, I would like to comment about this topic. The post that maintained that “belly gunners” manned guns that used cloth belts is suspect. The term “belly gunner” refered to an aircrewman that was postioned in the bottom of a bomber aircraft, usually forward of the bombbay doors. All WWII bombers i.e. the B-17 had .50 cal twin M-2 aircraft guns. These guns were called the aircraft configuration because they had 36 inch barrels as opposed to a 45 inch barrel on the standard M-2. At any rate, the M-2 machine gun has always used a disintegrating link belt. That was one of the reasons it worked so well on aircraft, the spent belt wasn’t there to get caught up in stuff after the ammunition was expended. In the case of the “belly gunner” position, the links along with the spent brass casings were ejected out the bottom of the glass bell the gunner was in. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/597781/2 "2011-09-27T19:34:26Z")
Welcome to the Dope, **T.S.** I’ve reported your post so a moderator can move it to the correct forum. Hope you enjoy it here. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/597781/3 "2011-09-27T23:57:47Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Welcome to the Dope, **T.S.** I’ve reported your post so a moderator can move it to the correct forum. Hope you enjoy it here. It’s in the correct forum, isn’t it? This is about the famous Cecil column: [What’s the origin of “the whole nine yards?”](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/504/whats-the-origin-of-the-whole-nine-yards) ETA: I see that it was originally posted in Great Debates. Surprised there’s no post from a moderator mentioning the move. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/597781/4 "2011-09-28T00:07:02Z")
Welcome, **T.S.**. I’ve moved the thread to _Comments on Cecil’s Columns/Staff Reports_. The first column on this was Cecil’s [What’s the origin of “the whole nine yards”?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/504/whats-the-origin-of-the-whole-nine-yards) That was 1987, the Stone Age when it comes to finding out the origins of words and phrases–the world has progressed light years since then. The exact comment you’re commenting on occurred just before Cecil’s final comment. It was proposed by one **Ian McDonald**. He said > [@](#): > > The whole nine yards refers to the length of one ammunition belt from a belly-gunner’s machine gun. When a target was overly resilient and the gunner was forced to expend all his ammunition to bring it down, it was said to have taken the “whole nine yards.” Also, when loading up for a mission that was going to be particularly dangerous, gunners would refer to bringing the “whole nine yards,” as they would need quite a bit of ammunition to complete the mission safely. We’ve progressed way beyond the ammunition belt theory. It’s now even beyond a military origin(but that’s not ruled out entirely). ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/597781/5 "2011-09-28T00:08:24Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > ETA: I see that it was originally posted in Great Debates. Surprised there’s no post from a moderator mentioning the move. :dubious: Sorry. I was watching the opening of NCIS. Some things come first. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/597781/6 "2011-09-28T02:28:14Z")
> [@T.S](#): > > The term “belly gunner” refered to an aircrewman that was postioned in the bottom of a bomber aircraft, usually forward of the bombbay doors. On the B-17, the B-24, the early B-25, the B-29, the A-26, and paintings of the B-32, the belly or ventral turret was aft of the bomb bay. (While there are illustrations of B-32s with a far aft ventral turret, I am not sure that any operational B-32s actually had a turret, there.) ---
**Author:** ![T.S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@T.S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.S)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/597781/7 "2011-09-28T13:02:51Z")
Thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/597781/8 "2011-09-28T13:42:35Z")
Last I heard they had tracked down someone who used the phrase in a short story in the early 1960’s. Check the [last few entries in this thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=550944&page=2&highlight=yards)