# The whole nine yards **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 23, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/834387 "2019-05-23T01:46:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/834387/23 "2019-06-15T20:10:00Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Being a football lover, I’ve never liked the phrase. If all you get is, “the whole nine yards”, then you’ve failed because you turn the ball over on downs. That’s why I have for decades assumed it was originally used sarcastically. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2019, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/834387/24 "2019-06-16T03:27:37Z")
> [@Tammi\_Terrell](#): > > FWIW, here’s everything I know about 1855’s “The Judge’s Big Shirt” and how influential it may have been in giving rise to “the whole nine yards” as an idiom. > > [http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2016-January/140388.html](http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2016-January/140388.html) That convinces me that ‘the big shirt’ wasn’t the source of ‘the whole nine yards’. I gues that means that (1) I can still hang onto the idea that ‘the big shirt’ referenced an existing ‘whole nine yards’ idiom, and (2) attractive as the idea may be to me, it’s inherently unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2019, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/834387/25 "2019-06-16T03:38:34Z")
Gawd! Now I can’t stop thinking about _Angus and the Kilt!_ ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2019, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/834387/26 "2019-06-16T12:56:52Z")
Tammi Terrell writes: \> Once military types from all over the country adopted it, the idiom took off in print: \> most of the sightings from the '60s are in pieces that are in some way related to wars \> in progress (or NASA). (I wrote a piece on this for Comments on Etymology that, in \> part, explores this angle.) Can you link to this piece or include it in a post or summarize it or whatever? ---
**Author:** ![Tammi\_Terrell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Tammi\_Terrell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tammi_Terrell)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/834387/27 "2019-06-16T14:01:15Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Can you link to this piece or include it in a post or summarize it or whatever? I’ll be happy to. I’m afraid this small journal isn’t available online, but I’ve uploaded a PDF of the article to [http://www.med.unc.edu/uploads/ikwnh.taylorblak.pdf](http://www.med.unc.edu/uploads/ikwnh.taylorblak.pdf), where it will reside for a week or two before vanishing. (It includes a mention of our own **samclement** ’s work on the idiom.) Folks are welcome to send me a DM if they happen upon this post after the PDF has disappeared. (A small note: the editor had asked me to focus on a comparison of then-recent finds rather than speculate on possible origins of the idiom, which is what I did.) > [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > Gawd! Now I can’t stop thinking about _Angus and the Kilt!_ Oof, I’m very fond of [snopes.com](http://snopes.com) and have been for two decades, but I’m very sad that their entry on “the whole nine yards” is so terribly outdated (it appears to be an orphan now) and, cringe, that it includes this: > [@](#): > > Oddly, the best candidate for the origin of the expression might lie with a risqué story of uncertain age, as the punchlines (and even the implied punchlines) of bawdy jokes sometimes linger on within the lexicon of ordinary use long after the howlers they came from have slipped from memory. And then there’s a whole section on Andy McTavish, cringe, and his manhood. > **['The Whole Nine Yards' Etymology](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-whole-nine-yards/)** > > The etymology of the phrase 'the whole nine yards.' ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/834387/28 "2019-06-16T16:51:47Z")
> [@Tammi\_Terrell](#): > > I’ll be happy to. I’m afraid this small journal isn’t available online, but I’ve uploaded a PDF of the article to [http://www.med.unc.edu/uploads/ikwnh.taylorblak.pdf](http://www.med.unc.edu/uploads/ikwnh.taylorblak.pdf), where it will reside for a week or two before vanishing. (It includes a mention of our own **samclement** ’s work on the idiom.) Folks are welcome to send me a DM if they happen upon this post after the PDF has disappeared. (A small note: the editor had asked me to focus on a comparison of then-recent finds rather than speculate on possible origins of the idiom, which is what I did.) Thanks very much for this, Tammi. It’s a wonderful example of the difference between true research and the fanciful explanations people love to posit because they just plain sound good. I hope that some of the people who present elaborate rationales for twenty-seven feet of cartridge belts or cubic yards of cement read it and realize that stories seldom describe reality. Nor does cherrypicking one word out of a whole allow the history of the whole to be understood. BTW, I note that samclem hasn’t posted here in a year. Do you know if he’s OK? ---
**Author:** ![Tammi\_Terrell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Tammi\_Terrell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tammi_Terrell)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/834387/29 "2019-06-17T11:48:10Z")
Thank you for your kind words, **Exapno Mapcase**. But I’m distressed to learn that **samclem** hasn’t been about. It’s been a while since I’ve been in touch with him. I hope all’s well with him. (BTW, I consider his 1964 find describing “the whole nine yards” as part of NASA-speak critical to moving research forward on possible origins of the idiom. It enabled me to think about the idiom in a whole new light.) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/834387/30 "2019-06-17T13:13:06Z")
Although samclem hasn’t posted in a year, under his profile it says: Last Activity: 05-20-2019 02:39 PM Does that mean that he’s reading the SDMB but not posting to it? Could someone E-mail him and ask? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/834387.md?page=1)