# the whole nine yards **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 28, 1999, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/982 "1999-05-28T03:54:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Beruang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@Beruang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beruang)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2000, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/982/21 "2000-02-14T14:44:00Z")
Here’s what the lexicographers at Random House have to say: [http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/?date=19971128](http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/?date=19971128) Basically: WW II ammunition belts? Nope. Men’s suits, women’s bridal gowns? Nope. Sails and masts? Nope. Cement mixers? Football games? Burial shrouds? Nope, nope, and nope. Personally, I think the phrase originated with the classic Bruce Willis - guy from Friends movie. (Why can’t I remember his name?) * * * “The dawn of a new era is felt and not measured.” Walter Lord ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2000, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/982/22 "2000-02-19T15:43:00Z")
OK, the real story [tongue firmly in cheek]: Today, the central office of nationwide criminal investigation in Britain is Scotland Yard. But in the 18th Century, there were actually different “Yards,” or departments, which investigated criminals across county boundaries. These had nifty pseudo-regional names: Wales Yard, Strathclyde Yard, Lancaster Yard, Kent Yard, Guernsey Yard, Hebrides Yard, Cornwall Yard, Shetland Yard, and, of course, after 1764, Quebec Yard. When some particularly galling crime was pulled off, the king would call in the Minister of Apprehension, who would ask how many of the royal forces were to be put on the case; George III was known for growling, “Give me the whole Nine Yards!” [/tongue firmly in cheek] \what’s sad is this; this story will actually enter the public consciousness and become a legend, even though I made up EVERYTHING IN IT.\ foolsguinea * * * A new world order has been formed/between the cheque book and the dawn/A new renaissance man is born" Jim Moginie/Peter Garrett/Martin Rotsey (Midnight Oil), “Renaissance Man” ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2000, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/982/23 "2000-02-20T15:39:00Z")
The Whole Nine Yards is a movie. Thanks to Hollywood for actually providing us with an answer. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![thiltner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/50afbb/32.png) [@thiltner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thiltner)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/982/24 "2000-03-07T06:15:00Z")
More plausibilities on “the whole nine yards” [http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/?date=19971128](http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/?date=19971128) Also, check this: During WWII, there were nine naval shipyards (NY, Philadelphia, Long Beach, Pearl Harbor, etc etc.) When the Sec Nav issued an edict affecting all shipyards, it was entitled ‘to all nine Yards’; hence, the orignal expression was “all” nine yards, not the “whole” nine yards. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/982/25 "2000-03-07T06:58:00Z")
I’m beginning to think that it refers to the cubic measurement of fertilizer being thrown about by people on this topic. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2000, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/982/26 "2000-03-08T06:34:00Z")
OK, well I think the answer below has some merit, especially since the originator went to some trouble to figure it out. > [@](#): > > “The whole nine yards” refers to the amount of fabric in a proper Scottish kilt. > > Nine yards of fabric seemed positively way too much for a skirt - I mean a kilt. I was skeptical so I did a quick calculation on the kilt idea. > > Measuring myself around the buttocks and hips, I find that I am 42 inches in circumference. 9 yards is 324 inches. Hence 9 yards of fabric could wrap around me 7.7 times! Even allowing for pleats and a bit of breathing room, this seems far too much. > > However the kilt notion may have merit. Today, cloth is sold linearly such that a yard is three feet long, regardless of the width. But these measurements are likely to be the area of cloth - nine square yards. > > The kilt, much like the suit, must have the fabric oriented in the proper direction. The plaid or Tartan as it’s called has to be matched perfectly, so it doesn’t look crooked. This alone takes a huge amount of cloth. The nine yards is the area of the fabric the tailor starts with, much of which ends up as scrap. > > Additionally, a kilt does not simply wrap around the waist. It also includes fabric that is worn up and over the shoulder. > > Old style kilts were used as blankets, toweling, or whatever else came to mind. There is a tale about one man using his to escape from a window of his lady-friend’s bedchamber when her husband came home early. Needless to say he had to streak across to his horse and home. > > Unfortunately, this turned out rather like those “Dumb Crook” cases you hear about now. Because each kilt was a specific Tartan, the husband had no trouble at all identifying the culprit. > > Thanks to Ceruleann, Neuticals, and K. Paull from [Origin of Phrases](http://members.aol.com/MorelandC/Phrases.htm) ---
**Author:** ![lswote](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lswote/32/5737_2.png) [@lswote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lswote)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2000, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/982/27 "2000-03-22T03:53:00Z")
I don’t have any definative evidence as to the origins of the term, but one thing Cecil said in the column itself was that he would welcome historical references to the use of the phrase. Bob Vila, formerly of “This Old House” and now of “Home Again” claimed on an episode of “Home Again” taped in 1995 that the term “the whole nine yards” does indeed have to do with taking the full cement truck load of nine yards of cement. Not a great help I realize, but it is something. * * * “The truth does not make a good story; that’s why we have art.” ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2000, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/982/28 "2000-03-23T06:44:00Z")
I think by historical references Cecil is looking for things that predate the 50’s. If you found an authentic WWII reference to ammo belts coming in nine yard lengths, that would work. A Bob Vila comment in 1995 won’t. Now if Bob Vila has a reference, by all means supply it. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/982/29 "2000-03-24T03:22:00Z")
[quote] Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried: OK, well I think the answer below has some merit, especially since the originator went to some trouble to figure it out. > [@](#): > > “The whole nine yards” refers to the amount of fabric in a proper Scottish kilt. I was going to mention Kilts when I saw this topic come up some time ago, but decided after a bit of checking that it was probably – although not certainly – another red herring. My kilt, made by “Wm MacIntosh & Company” of Edinburgh consists as most modern kilts do, of 8 yards of heavy woolen fabric, woven to about 28" width – although some fabrics are woven twice that width and then split. The original Great Kilts, to quote Tartan Web, “would comprise about 12 ells of fabric (an ell in Scotland was just over a yard) which would be split and stitched together to form a very broad plaid some 6 yards long and perhaps up to 2 yards and more wide.” So… Modern Kilts consist of 8 yards, Great Kilts of 12 odd square yards, although Tartan Web adds: “We normally recommend a length of about four and a half yards to form a Great Kilt”… so 4 1/2 x 2 = 9 square yards… so maybe… For more details see: [http://www.scottish-selection.com/tweb/index.htm](http://www.scottish-selection.com/tweb/index.htm) ---
**Author:** ![KimKatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@KimKatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KimKatt)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/982/30 "2000-03-24T20:08:00Z")
This particular topic is being debated all over the 'net, and references to Cecil even have popped up in those discussions. Looks like most agree that the origin of this phrase is unknown, and that most of the theories suggested here can be disproven. Specifically, “More of the Straight Dope” is cited as a reference to the average size of cement mixers: [http://www.wilton.net/etyma1.htm](http://www.wilton.net/etyma1.htm) * * * Any similarities between your reality and mine are purely coincidental. ---
**Author:** ![KimKatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@KimKatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KimKatt)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/982/31 "2000-03-24T20:17:00Z")
“According to the OED 2d, its first use was noted in 1970 in (a) periodical called “Word Watching.” “WW” was published by G.C. Merriam, but it seems to have been discontinued.” ## Found this quote on another site debating the origin. Anyone happen to have a copy? Any similarities between your reality and mine are purely coincidental. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-whole-nine-yards/982.md?page=1)