# The Wire -- all seasons discussion thread with OPEN SPOILERS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 1, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807 "2010-08-01T18:25:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/61 "2010-08-03T07:37:44Z")
[quote=“Marley23, post:48, topic:548807”] > [@Bob Ducca](#): > > The theme of the end of the series, I thought, was that the peopel who try to do good have to keep compromising and then live with the compromises they have made: Freamon and McNulty get a bunch of criminals off the street, but they miss out of Marlo and the money trail and they’re no longer cops. And standing up for yourself, drawing a line in the sand and saying no more, might not be possible: Daniels swears he won’t manipulate the crime stats, but he has to resign because if he doesn’t go along with Campbell, they’re expose his theft when he was in the Eastern District.. This is the nub of S5 for me, as described by David Simon: > [@](#): > > The main theme is not the fabulist and what he is perpetrating. That’s the overt plot. The main theme is that, with the exception of the bookends – at the beginning, the excellent effort at adversarial journalism that begins the piece in episode one and the genuine piece of narrative journalism that concludes it, with Bubbles – **it’s a newspaper that is so eviscerated, so worn, so devoid of veterans, so consumed by the wrong things, and so denied the ability to replenish itself that it singularly misses every single story in the season**. > [@](#): > > **This was a story about a newspaper that now – on some fundamental basis – fails to cover its city substantivel** y, and guess what – between out-of-town ownership, carpetbagging editors, the emphasis on impact journalism or Prize-culture journalism and, of course, the economic preamble that is the arrival of the internet and the resulting loss of revenue and staff, there are a f–k of a lot of newspapers that are failing to cover their cities substantively. **That is the last piece in the Wire puzzle: If you think anyone will be paying attention to anything you encountered in the first four seasons of this show, think again**. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/62 "2010-08-03T09:05:19Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > ETA: Not to mention Omar jumping out the window like he was suddenly superhuman. The amazing thing is that, according the the writer, this incident was actually based on a real-life incident in the life of one of Omar’s inspirations. I read the original article (in a British paper I think?) and can’t find it online, but there a more excepts here: [http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?172531-Interview-with-David-Simon](http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?172531-Interview-with-David-Simon) [QUOTE=Interview with David Simon] **So out of all these people, did you pick and choose traits and stories from their realities for Omar? For instance, Omar carries a shotgun. He’s gay. He’s got all these really great characterizations.** Listen, when he jumps out the window during that shootout, that was something Donnie Andrews actually did. He jumped out of the sixth floor of the Murphy Homes when he was caught in an ambush and out of ammunition. Did he think about it? No, but he did it and he survived and he was able to limp away. It happened. He also jumped off the Poplar Grove rail bridge another time. It’s legend. There are people who will tell you about it in West Baltimore other than Donnie. It’s not just something he’s making up. If you make that jump, you’re dead. If I make that jump, I’m a puddle on the ground. [/QUOTE] _Fo’ sure_ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/63 "2010-08-03T15:46:38Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > This is the nub of S5 for me, as described by David Simon: But that’s not about newspapers manipulating the public. It’s about newspapers failing to do their job of covering the important events in the city. > [@Cyberhwk](#): > > Yeah, but it was his curiosity and mistrust that, in the end, saved his life. **Maserschmidt** actually quoted this line, not me. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/64 "2010-08-03T16:20:03Z")
Not just a whole lot is said about Brother Mouzone, and according to IMDb he’s only in seven episodes, but for my money he’s one of the standout characters in the show. I’m toying with the idea of a poll to determine the favorite characters in the show. Using IMDb’s record-keeping [[Full cast and crew for “The Wire” (2002)](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0306414/fullcredits#cast)] as a basis, and acknowledging that their list has over 300 actors listed, with at least 100 of them being in at least 10 episodes, how should I select a meaningful slate to put into a poll? How many votes per Doper should I allow? Just as a frame of reference, here are those with more than 20 episodes’ credit: Dominic West … Det. James ‘Jimmy’ McNulty / … (60 episodes, 2002-2008) John Doman … Dep. Comm. for Operations William A. Rawls / … (60 episodes, 2002-2008) Wendell Pierce … Det. William ‘Bunk’ Moreland (60 episodes, 2002-2008) Lance Reddick … Lt. Cedric Daniels / … (60 episodes, 2002-2008) Deirdre Lovejoy … Asst. State’s Atty. Rhonda Pearlman (60 episodes, 2002-2008) Sonja Sohn … Det. Shakima ‘Kima’ Greggs (60 episodes, 2002-2008) Seth Gilliam … Sgt. Ellis Carver / … (60 episodes, 2002-2008) Domenick Lombardozzi … Det. Thomas ‘Herc’ Hauk / … (60 episodes, 2002-2008) Clarke Peters … Det. Lester Freamon (59 episodes, 2002-2008) Andre Royo … Bubbles / … (52 episodes, 2002-2008) Michael K. Williams … Omar Little (51 episodes, 2002-2008) Jim True-Frost … Det. Roland ‘Prez’ Pryzbylewski / … (50 episodes, 2002-2008) Frankie Faison … Commissioner Ervin H. Burrell / … (47 episodes, 2002-2008) Corey Parker Robinson … Det. Leander Sydnor (45 episodes, 2002-2008) Delaney Williams … Sgt. Jay Landsman (45 episodes, 2002-2008) J.D. Williams … Preston Broadus (42 episodes, 2002-2006) Wood Harris … Avon Barksdale (38 episodes, 2002-2008) Idris Elba … Russell ‘Stringer’ Bell (37 episodes, 2002-2004) Aidan Gillen … Councilman Thomas ‘Tommy’ Carcetti / … (35 episodes, 2004-2008) Jamie Hector … Marlo Stanfield (32 episodes, 2004-2008) Gbenga Akinnagbe … Chris Partlow / … (30 episodes, 2002-2008) Robert Wisdom … Howard ‘Bunny’ Colvin / … (27 episodes, 2003-2008) Chad Coleman … Dennis ‘Cutty’ Wise (26 episodes, 2004-2008) Anwan Glover … Slim Charles (26 episodes, 2004-2008) Michael Kostroff … Maurice ‘Maury’ Levy (25 episodes, 2002-2008) Michael Salconi … Off. Michael Santangelo / … (25 episodes, 2002-2008) Tray Chaney … Malik ‘Poot’ Carr (25 episodes, 2002-2008) Isiah Whitlock Jr. … State Sen. R. Clayton ‘Clay’ Davis (25 episodes, 2002-2008) Felicia Pearson … Felicia ‘Snoop’ Pearson (25 episodes, 2004-2008) Robert F. Chew … Joseph ‘Proposition Joe’ Stewart (24 episodes, 2002-2008) Michael Ahl … Detective / … (24 episodes, 2003-2008) Reg E. Cathey … Norman Wilson (23 episodes, 2006-2008) Jermaine Crawford … Duquan ‘Dukie’ Weems (23 episodes, 2006-2008) Tristan Wilds … Michael Lee (23 episodes, 2006-2008) Glynn Turman … Mayor Clarence V. Royce / … (22 episodes, 2004-2008) Edward T. Norris … Det. Edward Norris / … (22 episodes, 2002-2008) Amy Ryan … Off. Beatrice ‘Beadie’ Russell (20 episodes, 2003-2008) And these folks had at least 15 episodes: Hassan Johnson … Roland ‘Wee-Bey’ Brice (19 episodes, 2002-2008) Gregory L. Williams … Det. Michael Crutchfield (19 episodes, 2004-2008) Al Brown … Major Valchek / … (19 episodes, 2002-2008) Larry Gilliard Jr. … D’Angelo Barksdale (18 episodes, 2002-2003) Brian Anthony Wilson … Det. Vernon Holley (18 episodes, 2002-2008) Benjamin Busch … Off. Anthony Colicchio (18 episodes, 2004-2008) Jay Landsman … Lt. Dennis Mello / … (18 episodes, 2003-2008) Paul Ben-Victor … Spiros ‘Vondas’ Vondopoulos (17 episodes, 2003-2008) Maria Broom … Marla Daniels (16 episodes, 2002-2008) Frederick Strother … State Delegate Odell Watkins (16 episodes, 2004-2008) Kwame Patterson … ‘Monk’ Metcalf (16 episodes, 2006-2008) Thuliso Dingwall … Kenard (16 episodes, 2004-2008) Richard Burton … Sean ‘Shamrock’ McGinty / … (16 episodes, 2003-2004) Ryan Sands … Off. Lloyd ‘Truck’ Garrick (16 episodes, 2004-2008) Peter Gerety … Judge Daniel Phelan (15 episodes, 2002-2008) Melanie Nicholls-King … Cheryl (15 episodes, 2002-2008) Richard DeAngelis … Col. Raymond Foerster / … (15 episodes, 2002-2006) Cleo Reginald Pizana … Chief of Staff Coleman Parker / … (15 episodes, 2004-2006) Brandy Burre … Theresa D’Agostino (15 episodes, 2004-2006) That’s a lot of people to put into a poll, but I want to be as fair and comprehensive as possible. Ideas? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/65 "2010-08-03T16:33:22Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Instead, in S5, we get Simon hitting us over the head "Michael is the new Omar (clunk); Dookie is the new Bubs (clunk). I just think the series suffered when HBO cut it short and he had to cram a lot of stuff in a shorter period. Simon has said that even though 13-episodes were originally ordered by HBO before they cut it down to only 10 (actually 10 1/2), that he had only needed 10 1/2 episodes to tell the story the way he wanted to. Here’s a quote from [an interview Simon did w/ Alan Sepinwall](http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2008/03/wire-david-simon-q.html)on the subject: > [@David Simon](#): > > The main stories were told exactly as they would have been. By the way, I was given 10 and a half. When I realized I needed more than 10, they asked if I wanted 11, and I said, “No, I need 10 and a half.” If I said I needed 12 halfway through the season, from Carolyn (Strauss) at that point, I could have gotten it. They came to me early on, I asked for an extra episode, a 13th, for season four, because we had to add some elements of the political spin-off that didn’t get made, so we had to deal with the election and the schools in one season. So I asked for 13, and they gave it to me, and then when we came back for the last season, they said, “School story’s over, election’s over, you have this one remaining theme, can you do it in less?” And I said, “I think I probably can.” > > But it was an open question. They said, “Can you do it in 8?” I said, “No fucking way.” They said, “How many do you need?” I said, “I don’t know. Maybe 10. Maybe 11.” So they said, “Okay, beat it out, see what you need.” I told them 10 after I beat it out with Ed – and, by the way, this is also in a year when they’re giving me 7 hours of “Generation Kill,” so they’re not being parsimonious – and then as we started making it and got towards the end, I realized I might need more story and I said, “Can I go to 10 and a half? Can I do a 90-minute episode if I have to?” And they said, “Sure. Tell us which one you need.” At that point, I’m one hour away. > > If they gave me 12, and said you have to take 12, then the truth is, certain storylines that were branches on the three that couldn’t be serviced in 10, like Prez and Cutty would have had storylines. The main storylines would have had no more or no less work done on them. We said what we wanted to say on them. We would have had more time to service characters who at that point had become peripheral but were favorites of the writers. But at the same time, we talked about it, the writers, and we realized Prez has reached his stasis, as has Cutty. What redemption there has been for them has been achieved, and that’s where we want to leave them anyway, so all we’re doing there is gilding the story a little bit. A decision was made that that’s not really what needs to happen here with the story. > > But the truth is, if I’d have gone to Carolyn and said ‘Look, I’m too tight,’ then she would’ve fixed it. She would’ve helped me fix it. And in fact when I did go to her and said, ‘I’m too tight. I may need 11, I may need 10 and a half,’ it was like, ‘Do what you gotta do.’ ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/66 "2010-08-03T17:28:02Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > That’s a lot of people to put into a poll, but I want to be as fair and comprehensive as possible. > > Ideas? You could probably cherry-pick from the 2nd tier - you’ve got to have (IMO) D’Angeo, Wee-Bey and Valchek, but a lot of the others are unnecessary (though Kenard was a perfect little bastard, as well). ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/67 "2010-08-03T17:50:46Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > > [@Zeldar](#): > > > > That’s a lot of people to put into a poll, but I want to be as fair and comprehensive as possible. > > > > Ideas? > > You could probably cherry-pick from the 2nd tier - you’ve got to have (IMO) D’Angeo, Wee-Bey and Valchek, but a lot of the others are unnecessary (though Kenard was a perfect little bastard, as well). Thanks for the idea. I like it. Maybe if we have a few people post 5-10 names from the \<15 episodes group, we could cover the less frequently seen, but still important ones. I’ll start with ten I really liked: Michael B. Jordan … Wallace (13 episodes, 2002) Method Man … Melvin ‘Cheese’ Wagstaff / … (13 episodes, 2003-2008) Pablo Schreiber … Nickolas ‘Nick’ Sobotka / … (13 episodes, 2003-2008) Chris Bauer … Frank Sobotka (12 episodes, 2003) Clark Johnson … City Editor Augustus ‘Gus’ Haynes (10 episodes, 2008) Marlyne Barrett … Council President Nerese Campbell (10 episodes, 2006-2008) Bill Raymond … The Greek (10 episodes, 2003-2008) S. Robert Morgan … Butchie (10 episodes, 2003-2008) Steve Earle … Walon (8 episodes, 2002-2008) Nathan Corbett … Donut (8 episodes, 2006) ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/68 "2010-08-03T18:01:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Zeldar](#): > > > > If anybody can shed some light on why [Dominic West](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0922035/) gets top billing, I’m curious to know that. Were there any of his pre-2002 roles so strong as to give him that much star power? > > I doubt it. But McNulty is probably the closest thing to a protagonist in the series. He’s in almost every episode and we see him succeed and struggle personally and professionally to a greater degree than most of the other characters. He’s also sort of a twist on the old fashioned troubled loner cop with a heart of gold type. And if the protagonist of a story is the one who goes through a change, I think that’s McNulty, too. A lot of those things are also true of Daniels and to a lesser degree Kima, but I think we get a lot closer to McNulty than to either of them, and McNulty is more likely than either of them to make things happen by going outside the chain of command or doing something crazy. Just for giggles I located a _Fresh Air_ interview with David Simon that has, among other neat trivia and inside info, a reasonable explanation of the Dominic West issue. There are other NPR stories and interviews on _The Wire_ that may interest you, but I recommend [‘The Wire’s’ David Simon and George Pelecanos](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3933251) from September 23, 2004 and which may be accessible from [http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=3933251&m=3933252](http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=3933251&m=3933252) – 19:35 run time. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/69 "2010-08-03T19:27:10Z")
From the 15-20 episode group, I’d add: Paul Ben-Victor … Spiros ‘Vondas’ Vondopoulos (17 episodes, 2003-2008) Peter Gerety … Judge Daniel Phelan (15 episodes, 2002-2008) From the under 15 list, I’d add: Michael Hyatt … Brianna Barksdale (12 episodes, 2002-2006) \*Brianna was the one really pulling the strings with Avon most of the time. Wendy Grantham … Shardene Innes (11 episodes, 2002-2008) \*Love this character. David Costabile … Managing Editor Thomas Klebanow (10 episodes, 2008) \*Ok, the character is bland, but I love the actor. He gets bonus points for his great work in “Damages,” “Flight of the Conchords,” and “Breaking Bad.” He’s also “[super delicious](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7XzZec_vmk)”. Michael Potts … Brother Mouzone (7 episodes, 2003-2004) \* From a # of episodes to awesomeness of character ratio, Mouzone has to be tops. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/70 "2010-08-03T21:11:45Z")
Wow, looking back on the “Old The Wire threads”…all I can ask is, where were you people when it was on? 😉 Hehe. Disappointingly short threads for some great TV. But my memory of this show isn’t good enough to participate much in this thread, I’m afraid. I’ll just go back to my doll furniture… ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/71 "2010-08-03T21:49:22Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Wow, looking back on the “Old The Wire threads”…all I can ask is, where were you people when it was on? 😉 Hehe. Disappointingly short threads for some great TV. But my memory of this show isn’t good enough to participate much in this thread, I’m afraid. > > I’ll just go back to my doll furniture… Haha… I’m one of the latecomers. Didn’t start watching the series until Season Five had already finished airing. My favorite old Wire thread was the very first one when the series started. A lot of people saying _Eh, it’s alright, nothing special… Just another cop show._ ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/72 "2010-08-03T22:23:06Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Wow, looking back on the “Old The Wire threads”…all I can ask is, where were you people when it was on? 😉 Hehe. Disappointingly short threads for some great TV. But my memory of this show isn’t good enough to participate much in this thread, I’m afraid. > > I’ll just go back to my doll furniture… I think some of the love is because of the cumulative effect. In other words, I don’t think I would have appreciated the show as much, or recognized its quality, if it had stopped at one or two seasons. That make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/73 "2010-08-03T22:51:03Z")
I’ve had another idea on a poll (actually a series of polls) to determine the favorite charcters. Using the IMDb list I linked to upthread, break down that list into groups based on number of episodes they were in. Keep each group in the 20-30 range (as much as possible) for characters mentioned in a particular sub-poll. Allow five votes per Doper per poll. After some time has gone by and front runners in each group have been identified, select the top x-number from each poll and put them all in a Final Poll. My way of thinking is that the bottom portion of that big IMDb list, say those who appeared in fewer than five episodes, could either be disregarded or else Dopers could be asked to pick some number (five let’s say) from those remaining. Using that logic, the groups might be: 1. 30-60 Eps – 21 2. 20-29 Eps – 16 3. 15-19 Eps – 19 4. 11-14 Eps – 28 5. 9-10 Eps ---- 25 6. 7-8 Eps ----- 27 7. 5-6 Eps ----- 32 8. Fewer than 5 Eps – The rest How does this plan sound? What would improve on this basic idea? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/74 "2010-08-03T23:35:33Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > I’ve had another idea on a poll (actually a series of polls) to determine the favorite charcters. > > Using the IMDb list I linked to upthread, break down that list into groups based on number of episodes they were in. Keep each group in the 20-30 range (as much as possible) for characters mentioned in a particular sub-poll. Allow five votes per Doper per poll. > > After some time has gone by and front runners in each group have been identified, select the top x-number from each poll and put them all in a Final Poll. > > My way of thinking is that the bottom portion of that big IMDb list, say those who appeared in fewer than five episodes, could either be disregarded or else Dopers could be asked to pick some number (five let’s say) from those remaining. > > Using that logic, the groups might be: > > 1. 30-60 Eps – 21 > 2. 20-29 Eps – 16 > 3. 15-19 Eps – 19 > 4. 11-14 Eps – 28 > 5. 9-10 Eps ---- 25 > 6. 7-8 Eps ----- 27 > 7. 5-6 Eps ----- 32 > 8. Fewer than 5 Eps – The rest > > How does this plan sound? What would improve on this basic idea? I like it, but I was also going to make a polling suggestion… What if the poll was broken up by what “group” the character belongs to. We could have the police, the streets, City Hall, the docks/school/newspaper/whatever (maybe just miscellaneous). Then we could pit the best of each group against one another. We could even break the categories down a bit… Marlo’s group against Barksdale’s for example. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/75 "2010-08-04T00:18:02Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I like it, but I was also going to make a polling suggestion… What if the poll was broken up by what “group” the character belongs to. We could have the police, the streets, City Hall, the docks/school/newspaper/whatever (maybe just miscellaneous). Then we could pit the best of each group against one another. We could even break the categories down a bit… Marlo’s group against Barksdale’s for example. That sounds fun, too. I’m pretty sure I may not know all the groups thoroughly enough to do those groupings, though. Do you feel comfortable doing such a thing yourself? I feel no special need to “own” the poll(s). I would just like something a bit more involving (and easier to keep count of) than just asking random Dopers to post their own list(s) of favorites. In my own case, when I tried to do such a thing from memory, I quickly realized I was leaving out some important characters. The IMDb list ought to minimize good ones being left out. That’s my main reason for wanting to rely on it (or something at least as comprehensive). The number of episodes concept just seemed simple enough to manage. Creating polls from the list ought to be a simple copy/paste maneuver once the size of the groups is determined. Another issue: should the character’s name (as opposed to the actor’s) be how they’re listed in the poll? I doubt if I could name more than a dozen or so actors, but I feel pretty sure I could name 100 or more characters, whether I really liked them or not. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/76 "2010-08-04T00:28:25Z")
Maybe we use the # of episodes (which I think has the most merit) to whittle the list down a bit and when it gets to a more manageable size, depending on who is left standing, we see if splitting the characters up by group makes sense? ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/77 "2010-08-04T00:29:52Z")
I like the idea of grouping the characters. I think it’d be easiest to use character names, but we should include the actor’s name too. Doesn’t hurt to have some name recognition and it’d help if someone wanted to check the actor’s IMdB listings. Can the polling (and discussion of the polling) be in a separate thread? ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/78 "2010-08-04T00:41:01Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I like the idea of grouping the characters. > > I think it’d be easiest to use character names, but we should include the actor’s name too. Doesn’t hurt to have some name recognition and it’d help if someone wanted to check the actor’s IMdB listings. > > Can the polling (and discussion of the polling) be in a separate thread? Certainly. Now may be the time to move the discussion to another thread. I’ll start one right away. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/79 "2010-08-04T01:05:44Z")
The new thread for discussing polls for selecting Favorite Characters is up. Go to [THE WIRE: Polls to determine Favorite Characters, Pre-Poll Discussion](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=573352) to carry further discussion forward. Thanks, and carry on! ---
**Author:** ![jrepka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee59a6/32.png) [@jrepka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrepka)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807/80 "2010-08-04T05:15:38Z")
I can’t rank the seasons, it’s like trying to decide which limb I like the best. The show is about the decay of the American city, and all of the institutions play a role. Season 2 is incredibly important because the loss of the working class – the loss of those union jobs that you could raise a family on – is one of the central issues in the African American community: remember in season 3, when Bunny meets with Mrs. Hazel, the only resident of Hamsterdam? She talks about how her husband bought the place on money she earned from her factory job – Again and again we’re told that the “bad guys” were always there, but the black middle class has been destroyed. The stevedores represented the last of the working class, and the gentrification of the harbor represented the displacement of this group. I agree that the 5th season was the worst, but I didn’t have as much of a problem with the depiction of the newspaper. Gus was the good guy, but he was swimming upstream against a flood. The problems with the management were no more cartoonish than those with the politicians or law enforcement – across the country, major newspapers cut experience and content to increase profit margins, and when circulation fell they responded with more cuts. The managing editor was based on John Carroll, who later moved to the LA Times where he oversaw the same cuts for years, until he finally balked and quit rather than allow even more cuts. Jason Blair was the most obvious model for Templeton, but the 80s and 90s produced a number of fabulist reporters, including Stephen Glass and the woman from the Washington Post (?) who wrote a series of feature articles about a street kid who she later admitted did not exist. These people all excelled in their positions because they brought attention and prizes to their institutions, while the working reporters (like Alma) were expendable. Clay Shirky has talked extensively about how the death of print journalism will negatively affect small- and medium-sized cities because civil institutions will gradually become more corrupt when there is no fourth estate to watch over the system. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wire-all-seasons-discussion-thread-with-open-spoilers/548807.md?page=5)